Sounds like it could be interesting.

Tell me in two coherent sentences who is Nicodemus Archleone and what does he do and why.

edited 1st Jan '12 10:14:22 PM by thefran

For the purposes of a quick one-off gag scene in a one-off gag story, all I really needed to know was that he's pretty much the most dangerous guy ever. The dialogue alone put that across well enough.

Now the author happens to be doing a followup story, during which he's been explaining more about the Order of the Blackened Denarius, Fallen possession, and starts getting into the details of what Nicodemus is running because it's actually relevant there.

I guess that brings us to one of the pitfalls for crossovers. Obviously explaining too little is bad. But explaining more than is really necessary to the scope of the story will bore people already familiar with it, and deluge a newcomer who's already playing catch-up with a ton of stuff that won't actually pay off. That's to say nothing of how close to the chest you want to play any plot spoilers that a newcomer might still want to appreciate later. It's a very delicate and tricky balance to be sure — there's a reason a good crossover is about the hardest thing ever to write.

edited 1st Jan '12 10:37:42 PM by Pykrete

Yes, that's the point. It is hard to make a proper crossover* that is instantly comprehensive, because you have to introduce not one, but two casts, in a timeframe shorter than just one episode of the original work(s).

To which there is a solution in not writing some of the cast at all! Nicodemus doesn't really serve a purpose in that story, and he has a backstory for a reasoning as to why he is so Affably Evil. Cowl is even more of a dark and mysterious figure that sort of acts between books rather than directly in story. Neither is needed.

The Alphas would be sufficient. They are nerds. Werewolf nerds. And I can see Butters as a brony.

The hardest thing ever to write is actually universally appealing comedy; detective stories are also ridiculously hard to write simply because you have no idea what would people find mysterious, what obvious and what a cheap cop-out.

Children's stories actually appealing to children are easy though, don't believe inferious writers. Kids're stupid.

---

*Fun drunken / sleep derpived / distracted fact: I accidentally wrote that sentence as "It is hard to quickly mate with a spider." I have no idea.

edited 2nd Jan '12 1:13:04 AM by thefran

I'm sure the gags you would've picked in its place would've been great and worked as well. Really. Pinkie Pie + anyone can lead to fun times of one sort or another. He picked the ones he did for the sake of sheer awkwardness and balls-out audacity. I'd wager the ones you would've picked would generate a wildly different dynamic. I'm just saying you don't really need the life story of anyone for that *

Pinkie included! Technically all a newcomer would gather about her is that she runs on sugar and giggles and screws reality in the ear at will to get them. And that's all that's needed! The why isn't relevant.

because the caricature served what needed to be served to do it.

I would've thought universally appealing anything is outright impossible and not worth the heartache and masochism involved in attempting such a thing. You're gonna turn some people off. Period.

It...feels deeply wrong to see a statement like this in a thread dedicated to a cartoon specifically written under the exact opposite pretense. Kids are very, very bright provided they're interested enough to want to follow what's going on.

Oh boy are you in the right fandom for this one! :D

edited 2nd Jan '12 2:19:47 AM by Pykrete

Yeah. Kids are actually a hell of a lot more clever than people think. Oh, it's easy enough to figure out what they like, sure, but the little bastards can be clever. It comes from being underestimated, I think.

Ooooh!!! Ooohhh!!!

I luv this show. ^w^

Ugh. We're not doing that again, are we?

No, just me.

Does this cartoon even have a huge kiddie fanbase? Somehow I am not so sure.

Kids. Will. Love. Anything.

Kids enjoy anything you feed them. They are obsessed with shiny things. They care not for plots or character development. They are directed by peer pressure. Taste is not something literary critics like me made up to make money, it is a real thing you need to develop by building up your reference pools.

lol i got there because of Ask Princess Molestia

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:48:39 AM by thefran

I believe it's actually quite popular among the wee'uns, though I wouldn't have the exact demographic numbers.

BUT, they will still be able to tell when something is not right with something. They may not know what's good, but they can still pick out the truly bad.

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:50:38 AM by kegisak

They also know when someone's being condescending towards them (despite not actually knowing the word condescending).

Then how come Justin Bieber is so popular?

I liked Batman and Robin, Battlefield Earth and Pokemon anime as a kid. I liked terrible pop music and my taste in music equaled what was playing over the radio the most and/or what kids around me liked.

Eh, sometimes when your a kid, you like things that you'll hate when your an adult or teen. Hell, I use to like batman and robin when I was younger too.

edited 2nd Jan '12 9:47:50 AM by marston

Estrogen. Metric shit-tons of estrogen. And the fact that, despite the vapidity of his lyrics, he's actually a decent singer. Yes, I said it. The lyrics are so shallow you could step in a puddle of them and not get your feet wet, but his voice sounds very good. So I can see someone listening for that quality alone.

There's a difference between things you don't like and things that are truly bad. I enjoyed the Twilight book, s but I still recognize that they are objectively horrendous books. Conversely Hugo was, from a critical standpoint, fantastic, but I simply didn't enjoy it. Something that is really, truly bad, a kid will know it's bad.

Define "Bad".

I talk from experience right here. I did have to entertain a bunch of kids for some time. Eight to twelve. Camps do that.

It's super easy to tell a story for kids that keeps them entertained. Way more easy. When I'm writing something like 75% of that is spent, you know, not writing something. Research. Planning. Thinking. Does this make sense? Does this contradict that?

You can throw all of this out the window when you try to entertain kids. What you need to do is a lot of camp. And lots of things kids consider cool, as much as possible, crammed into as little time as possible. Ninjas, zombies, robots, dinosaurs, explosions, superheroes, etc. Characters can pop in and out of existence, plot can be nonexistent, the action can not end as much as stop - yet kids would be glad and ask for more.

They also like shout outs. I guess that makes them think they're clever or whatever

in a way, geek society is not that much unlike a bunch of manchilds after all. except the internet is a bunch of hipsters to boot, always struggling to find out what's cool and condemning those who keep what WAS cool.

Alternate hypothesis: People in general have low standards. Not just kids.

^Pretty much. That explains why miley cyrus and the jonas brothers {Augh} got so popular.

Back to the topic of the show, apparently theirs going to be 28 episodes this season as opposed to season one's 26 episodes.

I might as well post this here as well. It's worth sharing with all the world:

Behold, the most awesome FIM fanfic quote of all time:

Well okay, then there's: "Does Fluttershy have to shiv a bitch?"

That was pretty epic too, but this. I want "evil vampire goth fillyfooler" framed on my wall. Or on a T-shirt.

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:12:54 PM by Kerrah

^What fanfic is that from? That was pretty funny, but now I'm starting to be reminded of My immortal for some reason {Though I'm sure that the fic you quoted is way better}.

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:15:06 PM by marston

It's from "The Empty Room". The fic is actually quite good overall (if a bit convoluted), but the subplot with Evil Vampire Goth Fillyfooler Twilight is so hilariously over-the-top it makes me cry from laughter.

"Does Fluttershy have to shiv a bitch?" is from "My Little Creepypasta", one of my favourite fanfics of all time. In that case, it's meant to be silly.

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:20:24 PM by Kerrah

Additional hypothesis: Kids are condensed adults, and their flaws don't change, they just become less glaringly obvious and more glorified when they grow up.

Although there is this ongoing "putting away childish things" concept. (Which is alien to me)

I AM OKAY WITH THIS

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:22:07 PM by thefran

Is my little creepypasta on another site, like perhaps deviantart? I can't read google docs.

As for the other fic, I will have to check it out once I'm in the mood to read long fanfic's again . The last long fanfic I read was Fallout eqestria, and while it's a great story, It's longer then LORD OF THE RING'S.

edited 2nd Jan '12 4:35:24 PM by marston

The links on that EQD page are all Deviantart links.

Just read the first chapter of my little creepypasta, and so far I love it. Thanks for the link.