Alright Over Analytical Cap ON! I meant the fact that the green beam was associated with the changelings love siphoning. Using that spell along with Celestia's love for her people gave the queen a boost.

This is noticeable during the scene when the camera zooms on to Celestia's face, then back to the queen's. The queen's horn glows brighter before her beam overpowers Celestia.

@Enlong I think she intentionally waited until she'd heard the Queen's speech before making a move so she would know the full scope of the situation. She was gatherig intel, you don't make a move before knowing what your enemy is doing. Besides, I don't think they could've reached the elements anyway, they would've needed Celestia to open the door. I think her sending them there in the first place was so that they could fail and again make the queen even more sure of her victory.

Sorry... I like scheming!celestia Even if I have to make it up myself. I want her to be competent dammit

It glows brighter because more power's being fed into it. More power siphoned from Shining Armor's love, that the queen didn't realize was there.

The simple explanation is that Chrysalis didn't realize just how much power his love would give her.

Edit: But the "false sense of security" ploy is such a rookie plan, that can go so very wrong so easily. If Celestia is a schemer, I like to think that she's better at it than that.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:27:42 PM by Enlong

@Enlog

And think what would have happend had she beaten the Queen?

SA would still be mind trapped, the Changlings would still be invading, and everything would still have been a cluster fuck. Sure, with time they could still have set everything right but it wold have cost much more then it ended up being.

What really needed to happen was SA needed to be set free so he could cast his spell and the only was to do that was through The Power of Love, which for Cads to get close enough to try on SA The Queen would have to be convinced she had won.

Celestia falling was downright traumatizing. Seriously, it left me gaping. Maleficent, I mean Chrysalis, somehow managed to make a long self-introduction while holding the floor all to herself, with celestia nowhere on-screen: honestly, I thought she had pulled a fast one again and just left the premises, but then she actually fought.

And lost.

Lost.

I just can't get over it. The Worf Effect should not apply to a physical god, for chrissakes!

If Celestia wanted to get the Queen in a false sense of success, that is a pretty risky move. She would have to rely on 8 ponies significantly weaker than her to pull it off.

That'd be the obvioius.

But when then ruler of a kingdom's people is in jeopardy, and threat standing right in front of her. And said threat siphons love into power, would my theory have validity?

@Enlog

"The Mark of a Master is using being able to use beginner tactics to their full effect"

@Ginger: The thing is that losing to the Queen when she could have won is entirely counterproductive. If she can take out the villain herself, there's no need to lull her into a false sense of security. Deliberately throwing the fight arguably makes her look more incompetent. Her first priority is "eliminate the threat to the nation"; having the opportunity to do so and deliberately passing it up would be a startlingly bad call.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:31:33 PM by JapaneseTeeth

With the queen down, they would be able to break the curse on Shining Armor (it's not like we haven't seen Celestia clear away powerful obsession-inducing magic before), restore his strength (either with the power of love, a surge from the Elements, or some form of unicorn paramedics), and re-establish the shield.

Celestia losing to Chrysalis did nothing but make it necessary for Chrysalis to get careless.

Or, you know, for Chrysalis to be unconscious and unable to stop the heroes from making their move.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:31:51 PM by Enlong

That's the Power of Love for you. It's so strong that even the bad guys come out on top when they weaponize it.

@JT

But defeating The Queen would have...defeated the Queen. It wouldn't have stopped the invasion, wouldn't have free SA, wouldn't really have done anything but defeat The Queen.

@Enlong I think she was making do with what she had available to her. If she beats the queen, good, she gets the elements, hands them to the mane 6 and they purge the city. If she fails then the queen becomes cocky.

I also think that she had Luna sleeping outside the city, so even if the "get her cocky" plan didn't work Luna would've seen the danger when she came back, and would've gone to warn others

If Celestia defeated the Queen, I'm sure she'd have more than enough power to at least clear the way to the Elements if not take out the Changelings by herself.

Sometimes, one doesn't have so many irons in the fire that losing is some convoluted path to victory. Sometimes, one just fails.

Again, I ask what would be the point of allowing Chrysalis to win that fight? I can see no plan that would not be better off with an unconscious Chrysalis and an unrestrained Cadence.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:33:50 PM by Enlong

@JT No. I don't think she intentionally threw the fight. I think she entered the fight knowing that she would most likely lose, but there was a chance that she wouldn't.

Yes, but with the largest direct threat out of the way, it frees up everyone else to go help out with the invasion. And as noted, she's the one preventing Shining Armor from casting his spell; without her control over him negated, it would probably be a lot easier to get the shield back up. And it's not like Cadence and SA couldn't have used The Power of Love in the exact same way they did in the show; the only difference is that the Queen is already out when the spell goes off.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:33:54 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Eh, still think she should fire her guards. Or get some elite guards.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:34:21 PM by Chadaman99

@Enlong I don't WANT CELESTIA TO FAIL!!!

Too many people I care about have failed lately. Not her. Not her!

The Question is: could the Eo H have cleared away all the Changlings? I mean they seem more like a single target type thing that AOE reverses the damage done by their target.

I don't remember any comments of the sort.

Well, the EOH did have a pretty wide area of effect when they used it against Discord, so it's possible.

Where were the Wonder Bolts during all this? Getting their flanks handed to them off screen of course!

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:35:23 PM by Chadaman99

And I don't want to think that Celestia risked the kingdom on a gambit that wasn't necessary, and didn't make sense. She's a better person than that, whatever the memes say.

The Elements of Harmony can dispel Discord's hold over the whole country. I think they have enough AOE to handle some random guys in a city.

edited 22nd Apr '12 2:37:09 PM by Badwolfwho