My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Forum Archive (nuked Western Animation thread)
Page 442 | Posts 11026 - 11050
Rhyme Beat avatar
#11026 from Eastern Standard from Eastern Standard
[up][up] That's Apololypse How not Genocide. I remind you that Nightmare Moon might not have been aware of the implications of removing the sun. The whole thing was a pit of jealousy.
Off Beat Off Kilter
Japanese Teeth avatar
#11027 from Meinong's jungle from Meinong's jungle
I think the main reason that people are so harsh on Gilda and Trixie is that they learned nothing from their respective experiences. All we know is that Gilda was a jerk when she was introduced, and she was still a jerk after everything happened. It doesn't say anything about whether she's redeemable or not; all we know is that this one occurrence wasn't enough to do it. Claims that "she's definitely redeemable" or "she's irredeemable" aren't within the scope of what little information we've been given. People seem to lean towards the latter option due to the fact that within the episode, Gilda shows no signs of repentance. It's an assumption on the part of the viewer, but it's an understandable one.

I also want to note that outside of Equestria, the weather and whatever apparently goes on it's own. That may apply to the sun and moon as well; meaning that the ponies could theoretically have survived by importing food from elsewhere. Extremely unlikely, but possible. But overall I agree with the idea that Nightmare Moon wasn't attempting genocide and probably didn't have that particular consequence in mind.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:11:44 PM by JapaneseTeeth

( ◕‿‿◕ ) Buy TvTropes T-shirts! ( ◕‿‿◕ )
Ben10fan avatar
#11028
@ kegisak. you may be partly right but I don't think that interpretation of Gilda holds water as all of Ponyville wanted to welcome her.
gingerninja 666 avatar
#11029 from Aboard The Damocles from Aboard The Damocles
[up][up][up][up] I repeat, Rainbow Dash had better friends, otherwise she was just as big a dick as Gilda. I'm not saying Gilda wasn't responsible for her own behaviour, but her present company couldn't have been doing her any favours

edited 21st Jul '11 7:09:59 PM by gingerninja666

"Schneizel! So you ARE the puppet master behind all this!" - Lelouch Lamperouge

Tealove is best pony
Parable avatar
#11030 from California from California
Somehow, I don't think she thought that far. Killing everyone probably wasn't her intention. So I guess it would be genocide of the third degree.
Because "for the lulz" is a perfectly good reason to do something.
Turnways Flip avatar
#11031 from whoof want to know from whoof want to know
So you're saying Dash was a thief then.
Nobody will see through my disguise... this time...
Fallen Legend avatar
#11032 from Mexico City! from Mexico City!
  1. Luna was evil by choice canon wise.
  2. Pinkie tried to redeem Gilda so she isn't a lost cause.
  3. Twilight said that Trixie might learn her lesson one day

Luna is an immortal godess of course she knew what she was doing more than 1000 years old infact

edited 21st Jul '11 7:13:27 PM by FallenLegend

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C. S. Lewis
gingerninja 666 avatar
#11033 from Aboard The Damocles from Aboard The Damocles
[up][up][up][up][up][up] but Gilda seemed like less of a jerk. In her acting, it was subtle but I could definitely see a hint a hint of sadness and loss behind all that pride

edited 21st Jul '11 7:12:27 PM by gingerninja666

"Schneizel! So you ARE the puppet master behind all this!" - Lelouch Lamperouge

Tealove is best pony
Turnways Flip avatar
#11034 from whoof want to know from whoof want to know
I still have no idea where it was stated as Word Of God that an outside influence had anything to do with Nightmare Moon.
Nobody will see through my disguise... this time...
kegisak avatar
#11035
Oh, we can say they were responsible for their actions, but that doesn't mean that there weren't any reason behind it. I'm an exorbatent asshole, and I'll readily admit it. But I wasn't just born like that, I have my reasons. And yeah, it doesn't take a lot of assuming to call someone a dick because they're a dick. You can just call it a day after that.

BUT, one of the first lessons I ever learned is that people have history. People don't just spring into shape as a nice guy, or as a dick. Nothing is ever that simple. I just believe in giving someone the benefit of a doubt. Sure, sometimes a reason isn't enough, but we haven't seen enough of wither to call it one way or another. They still could come back and cover themselves. And for that matter, at least Trixie tried to fight the Ursa, even when she knew she couldn't beat it. That, I'd call a redeeming quality.
Japanese Teeth avatar
#11036 from Meinong's jungle from Meinong's jungle
@Ginger: I'm not sure where you're getting this "Dash would be just as bad as Gilda with different friends" thing from. We literally know nothing about Gilda's social background. Maybe Gilda has gryphon friends who are just more willing to put up with her crap.

[up]Agreed; I think that some people are more prone to dickishness than others, but they always have the choice of whether or not they're going to act according to that impulse.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:14:55 PM by JapaneseTeeth

( ◕‿‿◕ ) Buy TvTropes T-shirts! ( ◕‿‿◕ )
Ben10fan avatar
#11037
yes, genocide was not Nightmare's intent. she is not a Complete Monster.
gingerninja 666 avatar
#11038 from Aboard The Damocles from Aboard The Damocles
Rainbow Dash was willing to go a lot farther with her pranks if it weren't for Pinkie stepping in. If nothing else she would definnitely be a bigger jer without her current friends

[up] Yet Gilda IS

edited 21st Jul '11 7:15:53 PM by gingerninja666

"Schneizel! So you ARE the puppet master behind all this!" - Lelouch Lamperouge

Tealove is best pony
Parable avatar
#11039 from California from California
You mean tricking Fluttershy with a fake animal?
Because "for the lulz" is a perfectly good reason to do something.
Japanese Teeth avatar
#11040 from Meinong's jungle from Meinong's jungle
[up][up]That just means that Dash isn't very emotionally sensitive, which is a bad trait, but not necessarily one of dickishness, or one that makes her the same as Gilda. What would be telling would be the aftermath; Gilda would probably laugh at Fluttershy's distress, whereas Dash would probably be apologetic.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:16:33 PM by JapaneseTeeth

( ◕‿‿◕ ) Buy TvTropes T-shirts! ( ◕‿‿◕ )
Fallen Legend avatar
#11041 from Mexico City! from Mexico City!
[up][up][up][up]You are saying that an immortal goddess ( more than 1000 years old). Not to mention Celestia herself telling Luna of the consequences wasn't aware of the consequences of her actions?

That seems very unlikely.

Luna isn't a monster but she ain't innocent either.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:19:09 PM by FallenLegend

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C. S. Lewis
gingerninja 666 avatar
#11042 from Aboard The Damocles from Aboard The Damocles
I was just using it as an example of how her current friends ARE a good influence on her and she's been around them for a long time, we have no way of knowing whether Gilda would've mellowed out if she was around them aswell. I just try to be optimistic

edited 21st Jul '11 7:18:45 PM by gingerninja666

"Schneizel! So you ARE the puppet master behind all this!" - Lelouch Lamperouge

Tealove is best pony
Japanese Teeth avatar
#11043 from Meinong's jungle from Meinong's jungle
@Ginger: I don't think anyone is seriously calling Gilda a Complete Monster.

[up]EDIT: It's entirely possible that that's the case; we just don't know enough to say for sure. We don't know what Rainbow Dash would be like without the rest of the cast, and we don't know what Gilda would be like if she were around them.

[up][up]It really depends on how much maturity we attribute to Luna. We don't know her character, so she could easily be a lot more impulsive or whatever than Celestia is.

Also, we should keep in mind that this is a kid's show, and moral issues that would normally be really complex are being seriously simplified to that end.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:19:46 PM by JapaneseTeeth

( ◕‿‿◕ ) Buy TvTropes T-shirts! ( ◕‿‿◕ )
Parable avatar
#11044 from California from California
yes, genocide was not Nightmare's intent. she is not a Complete Monster.

Yet Gilda IS

Methinks not everyone has the same idea of what classifies a Complete Monster here. I get the feeling we'll be running in circles soon.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:19:45 PM by Parable

Because "for the lulz" is a perfectly good reason to do something.
Fallen Legend avatar
#11045 from Mexico City! from Mexico City!
[up][up]That's true. One more reason I can't wait for season 2 :)

edited 21st Jul '11 7:20:38 PM by FallenLegend

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else. C. S. Lewis
Japanese Teeth avatar
#11046 from Meinong's jungle from Meinong's jungle
[up][up]Yeah, I hardly think that anyone would call Gilda a Complete Monster unless they were joking about it.

I think the main issue here is that there are tons of fanon interpretations of the characters that are coloring our perceptions of their actions in the show.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:21:31 PM by JapaneseTeeth

( ◕‿‿◕ ) Buy TvTropes T-shirts! ( ◕‿‿◕ )
Turnways Flip avatar
#11047 from whoof want to know from whoof want to know
@http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=rp9u726d6kev3mymml5wtnxm&page=442#11038

Nobody is saying she's a Complete Monster. If she'd caused some lasting damage and not even cared, then yeah, she'd be a Complete Monster. Right now what is being asserted is that she's a Jerkass thief who shows no inclination to change. I can still see her being redeemed, even quickly, if she ever appears again. But at the end of her appearance, she was no closer to that end than at the beginning.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:21:29 PM by TurnwaysFlip

Nobody will see through my disguise... this time...
gingerninja 666 avatar
#11048 from Aboard The Damocles from Aboard The Damocles
[up][up][up][up] You're right. I'm sorry. I just like using this show as an idealistic slice of escapism, and seeing how much hate is garnered for thse characters does indeed upset me.

[up] I just thought I saw a glimmer of hope at the end of her episode, even if it was subtle

edited 21st Jul '11 7:23:57 PM by gingerninja666

"Schneizel! So you ARE the puppet master behind all this!" - Lelouch Lamperouge

Tealove is best pony
Red Savant avatar
#11049 from Eastern US from Eastern US
@JTeeth: Luna's Celestia's younger sister, so there's plenty of potential for feelings of inadequacy when compared to her beloved older sister, or just simple lack of thinking things through - she's young, and even alicorns have to grow into wisdom and maturity.

Oh my god, you guys post fast.

^I know where you're coming from, really. I get the same way.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:23:55 PM by RedSavant

I'm a college student! I don't have time for this!
kegisak avatar
#11050
we seem to be having a 'heated debate' - those sorts of things tend to inspire lots of posting.

[up][up]I agree, both for Gilda and Trixie. For everything else that happened, they both seemed so alarmingly human at the end that I couldn't help but want to see them back.

edited 21st Jul '11 7:28:18 PM by kegisak