That's what I don't like. I like a villain to BE the challenge, not the person facing challenges. (at least not from a narrative standpoint)

Sybella is also a villain, and she's damn competent.

Sybella?

I've heard a rumor that your related to the pony known as "Berry Punch".

Yes, we are related, but we're not that close to each other.

So wait, what are we all talking about?

Sybella is a leg of the Love Triangle and the Veronica, at that.

A movie called Kind Hearts and Coronets. It's one of the best movies ever made.

edited 15th May '12 7:11:25 PM by condottiera

@ginger: You point out my problem. Most Villain Protagonist characters are kinda pitiful and almost always doomed to failure. Hero Protagonist characters and their enemies come in ranges of competence but most of the time they at least get a happy ending. In most cases though you feel depressively bad for the Villain Protagonist at the end though, like they have been bullied by the Hero Antagonist, who is almost always portrayed as hyper competent and smug.

Kind Hearts and Coronets is something of an exception, but them again it is a guy committing Disproportionate Retribution on a bunch of idiotic jackasses. And he almost gets away with it.

edited 15th May '12 7:13:57 PM by Psi001

Ginger, if I were in your shoes, I'd try reading the Chronicles of Amber. The villains and the heroes are competent and the hero suffers a good number of set backs.

edited 15th May '12 7:11:50 PM by Drenius

What are we talking about now? Something about villains?

But yeah, Louis in K Ha C is pretty good, and awesomely Affably Evil. The scene where he kills young Henry is hilarious.

I stand by it being one of the best movies ever made.

edited 15th May '12 7:13:14 PM by condottiera

I wrote a villain protagonist who won, once.

Though he was still a pretty tragic villain, since in his case 'winning' meant murdering the woman he loved.

He still had plenty to overcome, albeit because it wasn't the sort of genre where heroes and villains normally apply(The idea was for a romantic comedy/tragedy with a heroin and a villain as the lovers.)

@Drenius Stop reccomending me books I have enough books to read.

I'm looking for stuff to watch.

I'm actually enjoying The Cape so far

Haha, I'd recommend you stuff to watch, but you've made it clear you aren't interested the shows I watch.

edited 15th May '12 7:16:16 PM by Drenius

I can't stand that a lot of old movies that I totally love are so obscure... I'm trying to get the word out there.

Go see The Thief Of Bagdad (The Roaring Twenties version) and Kind Hearts and Coronets, everybody.

Also, The Roaring Twenties itself. And more James Cagney movies.

edited 15th May '12 7:17:08 PM by condottiera

It's just when I think Villain Protagonist I think the Road Runner and Wile E Coyote cartoons. Fun but very simple and formulaic structure where the spotlight, depth and any entertainment value is all with one single character. It works for a simple five minute film like that but for some stuff you feel like you are missing something and it work better if it was just a more traditional formula where the heroes and villains and the rest of the universe around them got equal depth.

Imagine FIM if say, it had Discord and some minions as the Villain Protagonist characters, and all that lush depth, humor and facets for the ponies and their world was completely gone in favor of making them saccharine versions of Hero Antagonists (actually you pretty much have The Dreamstone there).

edited 15th May '12 7:23:13 PM by Psi001

For a movie (and a book) I like, there's The Hobbit...

@ginger: Your objection to Villain Protagonist would prolly exclude the gangster genre from your liking.

Black and white WB gangster pictures are freaking awesome. And the original Scarface, too.

Evening Miss C.

Mostly I'm just looking for Battle of Wits type shows (shrug)

Bloody Monday sounds interesting

A Battle of Wits? For the girl? To the death? I accept!

@con It'll depend on what the antagonists are like in those movies.

I am NOT a fan of watching heroes do awesome things all the time. I'm just not. It's not what I focus on

Just... a Battle of Wits. Look at Death Note or Code Geass

edited 15th May '12 7:21:10 PM by gingerninja666

One of my favorite gangster films is The Public Enemy

edited 15th May '12 7:21:30 PM by Drenius

Well, in The Public Enemy, a woman gets a grapefruit shoved in her face.

Proof that the main character is a jerk.

Plus, all those people he killed.

Ninja'd. Bizarrely specifically ninja'd... But my favorite gangster picture is The Roaring Twenties.

So you've never seen The Princess Bride?

edited 15th May '12 7:24:28 PM by condottiera

Well its late. Goodnight.

I said the ANTAGONISTS!!

not the Main Characters.

Gah!!! Stop with the weird terminology it makes things confusing