I allways saw it as "Belive in your friends" and anti dogma , so not anti atheist or other things.

That's kinda warped.

Warping is turning that episode premise into religion theme.

...Wat.

No, beauty and reason are most certainly not incompatible. Just because two scientists happen to be cynics doesn't mean that every scientist, or even any person who applies reason is a cold, unfeeling machine who only cares about physical elements. It does not hurt the beauty of a sunset to know a little bit about it. I know why the sky turns orange and pink and purple at twilight. I know that it's because of the sun's light being refracted through tiny particles of ice and dust suspended in the air. Does that mean that all I see is tiny particles in the air? No, it doesn't. I see a beautiful painting. I see the perfect end to a day. I know why it happens, but that doesn't make it not beautiful. And just because I understand that clouds are nothing more than water vapour, doesn't mean I can't see shapes in them, or that I can't find the subtle shades in them wonderful.

And for what it's worth, I'm not even talking about anti-religion here. You can be religious and still apply reason. I happen to know a biblical scholar - someone who analyzes the bible using reason, to determine what in it is and isn't supposed to be taken as truth. He went to university, and studied for it. Do you know what his profession is. He's a pastor. A man who regularly applies reason to religion, still believes in it enough to preach it.

It bears repeating: Knowing why something is amazing, doesn't make it not amazing. When we know nothing about something, it's mysterious and fantastic. When we know a little about something, it becomes dull. But when we know a lot about something it becomes fantastic again, just because of how amazing, how unlikely and how random the chance of it happening really, truly is. It becomes even more amazing for all the tiny little details that go into it. Maybe some people measure the merigolds, but that doesn't mean that everybody does. Because I'll tell you what, I sure as hell don't. I want to know everything about everything. I want to know what makes the sun set, and what makes the flowers grow and the birds sing. And do you know why I want to learn about all those things? Because they're beautiful.

I'm confused. Nice argument pro science but what it have to do with MLPFIM?

Scientist != positivist

no matter how desperately would positivists want you to believe otherwise

Again: the fact that sceptics almost universally want to convey the disregard beauty @ acquire measurements message is not. Helping.

I have pointed out the hypocrisy present in those who pretend not to, used purely as an example for discussion.

That would be most impressive if I wasn't one myself, part time.

edited 12th Dec '11 1:54:43 AM by thefran

You ask me this, but not the guy who starts the argument by citing Richard Dawkins as the face of all reason?

It doesn't have anything to do with My Little Pony, no. But I hate Measuring The Marigolds, because it's so untrue, and blatantly anti-intellectual. I see people saying that a scientist, or a reasonable person can't ever find things beautiful, and I just... ugh! I want to grab those people by the shoulders and shake them! I want to show them the world that I see, every day! A world where thousands of tiny, imperceptible things happen every second of every minute, changing each others course even as they themselves happen! It's like a symphony; every event creates and plays off another, tiny happenings weaving together, turning minutae chaos into a magnificent harmony! A world where everything is amazing! But nobody ever sees it, and they have the audacity to tell me that just because I see those tiny details, that I see the reason for things happening I don't have any concept of beauty.

And we're tropers, for godsake! We're the ones who are supposed to see those tiny things, and love what we see all the more for them!

Skeptics and positivists are not the only people present, here. A skeptic is only concerned with disproving a point. You said that beauty and reason are mutually exclusive, but a skeptic isn't the only person who applies reason, nor is a scientist. You are drawing from a very small pool, and applying it to a large variety of people, here.

Did you happen to skip over the part where I mentioned he went to university for it? As in, he knows a bit more about it than someone who does it part time?

edited 12th Dec '11 2:00:39 AM by kegisak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOyBFADTOuU

It's not as if we've ever really been inclined to stay on topic. Still, I suppose you're right. I should be off anyways, so I won't be bogging it down. But Fran, you're more than welcome to PM me if you wish to continue this.

edited 12th Dec '11 2:18:30 AM by kegisak

Obligatory let us return to discussing pony rump comment.

Back on Pony topic:

Why nobrony pointed this out:

Giant Spike rampaging

- Oh no, giant dragon! - Don't worry Mare Do Well will save us.

@JT: Your review is great as always.

I must admit that I'm very interested in discussions about Earth Pony powers...partly because I'm seriously considering writing a fanfic about Star Swirl (based on the toy) has to learn that being an Earth Pony unlike her ancestor Star Swirl the Bearded, is actually okay.

...And please lets not discuss Richard Dawkins. I work in the same field as him and get...pretty anoyed with him.

edited 12th Dec '11 4:16:47 AM by Sereg

I think the best thing about E Ps is that they have so much potential. Unicorns and Pegasi? We know what they can do. That's been firmly established.

E Ps on the other hand? They could do anything. That's why when I come up with weird powers, E Ps are my go to ponies.

And does anyone know any Opera terms? I really need a name y'see.

But don't you think you overdo? That you giving them to much?

No.

Prima Donna?

Earth Ponies are totally wildcards, in compensation for the lack of flight and arcane magic. Their talents can streeeeeeeeetch beyond the basic scope of "connection to the Earth".

My own OC-in-progress, Bright Idea, she has natural affinity for mechanisms, especially thaumic engineering. It runs: Earth Affinity -> Affinity for minerals -> Affinity for semiconductors -> Affinity for circuitry

In other news, Applejack is now an Engineer too.

Pegasi can fly. Unicorns get arcane casting. Some lucky Earth Ponies get the Royal Canterlot Voice.

edited 12th Dec '11 6:15:19 AM by AceOfScarabs

Umm. . .I just wanted to ask, is there any reason why only Earth Ponies can be a part of this "singing legion" other than "Earth Ponies don't have any established powers so i can make them anything I want because Earth Ponies need something super special awesome too!"

Sorry if that came across a bit patronizing.

Of course!

Should that mean that they are a demanding Jerkass too?

That's a great idea!

Also, how about this? Their EP magic generates a sort of inate 'power feild' that supplies energy to their machines. The ep is basicly a walking generator that has limititless power. If they move away from the machines they begin to power down, if they strike them, they get a sudden 'surge'.

Because they are magically drawing power from the earth to amplify their voices to massively powerful levels using EP magic.

edited 12th Dec '11 6:09:16 AM by ApplelightLimited

Every time you guys say EPs, I keep thinking about those half-albums bands release from time to time.

In other news, This other Doktor would have been unhelpful, but then again he's a battle-medic, not a Dragon specialist.

Best reaction image ever.

edited 12th Dec '11 6:17:46 AM by AceOfScarabs

Ok. But can unicorns use their magic to amplify their voice to? Can Pegasi do something similar with their connection with the sky?

I'm sorry I just don't understand why its got to be Earth Ponies.

Well, maybe a Unicorn like Twilight could cast a spell that gives them access to the RVC of E Ps, just like the cloudwalking spell that gives them a Pegasus's power.

edited 12th Dec '11 6:33:00 AM by ApplelightLimited

Honestly, it does feel like it's to give earth ponies some flashy ability, and all the explanations are just after-the-fact rationalization.

Really, though. The impression I'm getting is that earth pony magic was never meant to be flashy. It's meant to be subtle, like roots of a tree breaking through soil, or the river cutting into the face of a rock over time.

Plus, they're tough as nails and don't tire out easily. A unicorn pulls off one moment of awesome and has to take the rest of the day off. An earth pony, by the time the sun sets, could very well have accomplished just as much (or more) and still have enough energy for a dance-off at the local watering hole.

At least, that's my take on the whole thing.

edited 12th Dec '11 6:33:57 AM by KylerThatch

Last night, I dreamed a nonexistant episode of the show. A lot of the details are escaping me, but here's the gist of it.

The mane 6 took a trip to some local equivalent of Hollywood (if there was a cute horse-related pun involved, I forgot it), because Applejack wanted to meet a certain celebrity pony that she really liked. They ended up staying in some house. In the basement, they find these tiny yellow blobs that stick to them when touched, and the blobs started to grow bigger and then grow eyes. Somehow, Celestia catches wind, and does some experiments on the blobs, which turn out to be Smooze. Yes, Smooze. So Celestia freaks out and rushes to the house, which by the time she gets there, is full of Smooze, with the cast stuck in it. She does something to get rid of it, and then thank-yous are exchanged and the group go off to find the celebrity Applejack wanted to meet.

So, that's that. For the record, I've never seen the movie that the Smooze appears in. The only thing I've ever seen is a clip of the song about it.

So, yes. That's a thing that happened. Confound these ponies, they drive me to dream.