I think the issue is one of connotation here, as Red said. They can effectively be called gods for the nature of their powers - apparant immortality, control over a large natural force, and the fact that their powers mean they don't have to be truly infallable - in spite of lacking worship. They're like greek gods. The greek gods were only worshipped out of fear anyways, so without that there'd be no reason to.

So yeah; Celestia nd Luna are likely pantheistic goddesses... which is essentially how I'd been writing them for my story anyways. I'm with you, Red, why exactly were we arguing against this?

For me (I'm Atheist) something have to be part of religion and need to have worpshipers to be god. (And only for them).

Define godlike powers.

"Above and beyond human limit or ability". (definition of godlike, given the synonym superhuman) In other words, take the very peak of pony capability. Now go a step beyond that, and you have godlike.

Show me a pony how can move the sun or moon. Until then, I'd call Celestia godlike. Actually, show me a pony who can move the sun or moon, and still have enough power left over to sense a fairly small-scale crisis, long-range teleport, and break an enchantment without breaking a sweat.

Because, apparently, I didn't get enough sleep last night even though I thought I did. Or something like that.

Anyway, yeah - the connotation of 'god' to mean 'infallible' doesn't exist in most older religions that I know about. Norse mythology, Egyptian mythology, Native American mythology of all kinds and especially Japanese mythology... all of them feature powerful individuals who are very flawed and human. And kami, at least (I'm not authorized to speak about other mythologies), were rarely 'worshipped' so much as they were respected and venerated.

JTeeth, I have to agree that we don't really know much about the extent of the Princesses' power aside from immortality and the control of their respective heavenly bodies. The fact that Twilight, a superpowerful unicorn with quite good fine control (see: fixing the dam, pacifying the Ursa Minor) still considers herself a novice compared to Celestia, though, suggests quite a lot - as does the amount of skill and power a thousand years of practice minimum implies.

edited 8th Dec '11 5:53:02 PM by RedSavant

The argument seemed to come about because we weren't sure exactly what definition of "god" we were using.

Either way it doesn't matter much. Even if they are supposed to be gods the show probably won't acknowledge it.

edited 8th Dec '11 5:53:02 PM by Mio

Oh, I've been waiting forever to use a Stargate reference in this thread. Noe I keep imagining Celestia moving around Equestria in a giant golden flying pyramind having Jaffa ponies running around telling everypony to "kneel before your god!" And everytime Celestia makes a speech her eyes glow yellow and she uses the royal canterlot... Actually all Goa'uld use the royal Canterlot voice all the time anyway and that show predates this one by over a decade, so in a way the RCV is kind of like an homage to Stargate.

Well until show or Word Of God confirm or deny god status of Celestria and Luna we can't really say that they are or are not gods.

Hmm I don't even have head cannon about this. I'm fine with them being gods for ponies and not.

Depends in what you understand as a god

Celestia and Luna are nowhere close towards the christian definition. But they are gods if we go by the greeks or the norse.

Even our favorite timelord has been called a God and he isn't going to warp reality anytime soon (without his tardis) and he is just a mad man with a blue box

edited 8th Dec '11 6:03:08 PM by FallenLegend

Well, I'm still going with the native american spirit sense of god. Powerful, and connected to a single force/place, but neither infallable nor properly worshipped.

Luna eyes glowed white at some poit (same with Nightmare Moon).

So they are Goauld in body of Alicorns.

None of them are more corect.

edited 8th Dec '11 6:01:04 PM by DeathCloud

Oh, and the first post in this thread was made on October 12th, 2010. So it's more than a year old now.

Can't believe this show is more than a year old already.

edited 8th Dec '11 6:05:18 PM by FallenLegend

Doraemon is older, mind.

Do you think some enteprising biologist is going to use eugenics to make Equestrian ponies possible?

Dude.

Duuuuuuuude.

I'm not riding on this God-Go-Round.

...Doraemon is at least 30 years old. Why did you bring that up, though?

was... was one of those an alicorn? 'Shining Armour' just looked like a unicorn, but I'm pretty sure Cadence is an alicorn. lesse... A cadence is a a rythmic peice at the end of a piece of music. Godess of music?

I wonder if shining Armour is suppose to be some kind of a knight?

Well, more importantly... I wonder if it's movie related? Maybe that's why Hasbro only bought half a season - to make room in the budget for a movie?

Hey, you're right! She is!

Of course, she may never show in the actual show, but who knows?

I'm response to those who don't think Celestia is a deity in MLP....

Rarity (in that one ep): "Celestia as my witness...."

Nuff said.

edited 8th Dec '11 6:24:00 PM by nervmeister

Yeah, looks like Princess Cadence is an alicorn... can't see if Shining Armor has wings, though.

That's potentially very, very big, though. For one, it'll give us confirmation on an Alicorn race...

Well you guys got to talk about Digimon, so I'm going to drone on about Stargate and the fact that no-one can agree on a definition of God.

The original Stargate villians were a race known as the Goa'uld, a race of parasites that had access to some very advanced technology including a device that allowed them to live for millenia and resurect the dead. (The corpse has to be fresh.) They convinced less technologically advanced races that they were gods and insisted they be worshiped as such. After thousands of years of this many of them statrted buying their own PR and actually started believing they were gods figuring worship=godhood. Despite all this they were definitly killable and any sufficently tchnologically advanced race could tell they were using smoke and mirrors, though the Goa'uld's followers honestly believed they were both onimotent and immortal.

Later came the Ori, a group of "Ascended" beings with insane powers. Being ascended basically means they are energy beings that live on a "higher plane of existence" are omnipotent and basically have limitless power. However they are bared from acting because of another group of ascended beings that absolutly insist on non-inteference with the mortal plane. The point is that despite all their incredible powers most poeple refuse to actually refer to them as gods, largely because of the past problems with the Goa'uld. These people usually point out that the Ori used to be mortal beings long ago, before ascending, and that despite all their powers they did not create the universe nor have they existed before the begining of time. They even point out that the existence of the Ori does not prove there isn't a God that is more powerful than them.

So basically, the qualifications for being a god really depend on who you ask. As for Celestia and Luna? As far as we know they are immortal, and they have the power to rasie and lower celestial bodies. That's nothing to sneeze at.

edited 8th Dec '11 6:27:24 PM by WillKeaton

The new princess is somepony Hasbro is just making up to stick a toy for, so they can give retailers the pink princess they think will sell while releasing a show accurate Celestia toy.

edited 8th Dec '11 6:27:23 PM by Seraphem

She is really Rarity.

Hell, even that's pretty cool.

But one way or another the show is around to shill toys. So even if she only exists for a toy, someone is going to tell the showrunners to stick her in. somewhere.

Might be interesting to see a rival princess that Luna and Celestia have to deal with...