I was getting some dissonance from the episode, yeah. Kinda ruined the flow.

Thing is, Luna Eclipsed had two big things going for it:

• Luna's stage presence was interesting enough to carry a big chunk of the episode on its own
• Even though it had the formula of "Luna does something nice which is misinterpreted", each of the specific events were unique in how they were misunderstood; i.e. her meeting with Fluttershy was totally different from her attempts to play the carnival games, despite both following the formula.

In this one, the different events stuck to the formula much more tightly.

And yeah, looking at it again, I think Ponyville is OOC. Over the course of the series it's been portrayed in a fairly consistent manner as a sort of small, laid back community, so suddenly having the entire town turn into a Looney Tunes version of Gotham City just didn't click.

But yeah, I'll try to get working on my "official" review tomorrow when I'm not dead. I'm going to bed now, because I only got 4 hours of sleep last night and I've been on my feet pretty much all day.

edited 26th Nov '11 9:15:06 PM by JapaneseTeeth

What if a single pony had all the powers of the mane cast?

She would be friends with herself.

'Night, JTeeth. Get some sleep.

That's exactly the problem. 'Looney Tunes version of Gotham City' indeed... entirely aside from the construction worker ponies, the sheer ridiculousness of the high-rise building ruined that scene for me.

It was a bunch of little things like that. Nothing really stood out, but a bunch of little things threw the whole episode right off-kilter.

@Fallen, Then they'd be a Mary Sue or an Alicorn.

Or?

Pretty sure that under most circumstances, that one's an "and".

Well if your imaginative enough you could justify an alicorn. Most alicorns are immortal and thus I would assume very skilled at multiple things.

I think the issue is that creating a character who's a god - assuming we're not talking about a canon one created by the showrunners, of course - is pretty much a single short step away from a mary sue. A short enough one that most won't bother to make the distinction.

The problem lies in writing an alicorn with multiple skills so they don't come off as a Mary Sue.

This is very hard, because somepony who can do everything the mane characters can at least as well as they can, and who happens to be a member of a race currently restricted to two individuals (edit: two godlike individuals, thanks kegisak), is hitting multiple buttons on any good Mary Sue checklist.

edited 26th Nov '11 9:57:40 PM by CountDorku

Yes, it's quite hard but it can be done. Just because you hit multiple mary sue points doesn't actually mean your a sue. A sue is someone who is favored by the story and forces the cast to worship the sue. Just because an alicorn is multi-talented doesn't mean it has no flaws. That and in my mind an alicorn is actually 3 ponies of different species that willingly fuse together to achieve a buddhist enlightenment. Sharing wisdom with others or something like that.

edited 26th Nov '11 10:07:28 PM by PinkHeartChainsaw

I'm not saying it can't be done, but you'd have to be very careful and/or make sure that the writing is good enough nobody cares (see also, Shinji And Warhammer 40 K).

^^That's... an interesting viewpoint on it...

And plot-black-hole Sues and God Sues are only two kinds of Sue. There are a lot of them, and assuming that a character isn't a Sue simply because, say, Dash doesn't like her is how we get characters who are perfect and good, but tragically, unreasonably hated by someone, even though they would like nothing more than to be friends, and whose advances to that end are consistently rejected by the short-sighted, immature canon character.

...I threw up in my mouth a little writing that.

edited 26th Nov '11 10:06:23 PM by RedSavant

Actually, on reflection, "incredibly wise character who comes to teach the mane cast true enlightenment, and who happens to be a god" is the kind of concept that requires lots of care to avoid Purity Sue status.

Are my tastes just opposite of everyone else? I didn't think much of Bridle Gossip and Lesson Zero, which people keep praising as best episode ever!, and I actually enjoyed this one.

Anyway, I found the blatant discontinuity of Ponyville hilarious. Especially the dam.

edited 26th Nov '11 10:10:50 PM by storyyeller

^^I've only ever seen the situation I described above pulled off well once - Nia, from Gurren Lagann, causes almost exactly that situation with Yoko. For some reason, though, I've never once had a problem with Nia - probably because she herself recognizes that she has flaws and grows as a person and a character through said situation.

^I like Zecora a lot as a character, but her rhyming ability varies from writer to writer. I don't recall how good she was at it in "Bridle Gossip", but I did like the episode. I guess you do have backwards tastes! =D

edited 26th Nov '11 10:12:17 PM by RedSavant

Yeah, that's simply using the canon however. Seeing as Luna exists, it doesn't seem very likely though.

I have no idea what you mean by that.

Very well my student. I will teach you why my hypothesis is incorrect. First off Luna is anything but wise, she is quite naive of how to talk to commoner volk and needs TWILIGHT SPARKLE to teach her the alicorn how to interact with them. Second of all, Luna was an evil monarch who ruled over the vacant moon. Thus the shadows of immortality and the hatred of her sister grew. Third, Luna doesn't seem to be all that powerful, yes she handled the mane 6 quite well but the elements of harmony schooled her ass. However this also links to my theory again. Once an alicorn loses it's wisedom, it's very soul will be eaten alive by evil, tormenting the alicorn into a state of hatred and chaos. Thus Nightmare moon. Most alicorns don't survive this, but Nightmare Moon did. Luna was LUCKY. Thus Luna sent out on her quest to find true wisdom as she did millennia ago.

^I'm actually more confused now that I've read that, and I'm not sure that can be fixed by more explanation.

...You describe an alicorn OC who has the skills of all the mane cast and who goes around sharing enlightenment.

Then you describe a canon character who has nothing to do with this OC, and whose weaknesses actively contradict the traits you are ascribing to alicorns. Said description is dotted with fanon and doesn't make much sense.

How is any of this relevant?

^As far as I can tell, he's saying this:

In the event that Celestia was the only alicorn in the show, his fanon would be that she was a Fusion Dance-esque combination of three exceedingly wise and good ponies - an earth pony, a pegasus and a unicorn. Said fusion would only remain stable as long as she maintained bodhisattva-level detachment from the world, compassion for its inhabitants, and wisdom.

Well first of all I'm not having attributing all of these traits onto a single OC. This a description of the entire alicorn race. See the deal is less wisdom = get killed by evil. Alicorns are entire species of ponies that combine the traits of all three. Both of what I said is not contradictory at all, it's merely a possible explanation of the alicorn race and Luna! Thus everything makes sense if you take it that way.

Or that.

edited 26th Nov '11 10:40:54 PM by PinkHeartChainsaw

...it's no good, I'm still bewildered at how the conversation went. Or how we went from "creating OC gods with multiple skills who exist to spread enlightenment is very risky territory if you don't want to end up with a Mary Sue" to "here's my fanon about alicorns, with a bit of stuff I made up to explain how only 50% of the existing sample possesses the defining trait in said fanon".

...I need supper, and possibly a life. I'm starting to get needlessly confrontational and need to back away before I go from bewilderment to anger.

So what, like an evil that targets the alicorn race specifically and can sense the faltering wisdom? If so, why only alicorns when the other pony races could more easily fall into the trap?

Also, have some Applejack, because she doesn't get enough love.