Yeah, it's from Foaly Matripony.

Good evening everyone, what's up? I would've been on earlier, but I've been spending a lot of my time cooking some osso buco for dinner.

I really don't feel like SAYS did any character derailing. Exaggerating, certainly, but there was nothing about Spike that seemed to inherently contradict anything else - the sole exception being his shitty pie, but a pie is a lot different from a cake or a cookie. I mean it's not like we've never seen him be clumsy, and his devotion to Twilight(which seems to be much more as an assistant than as a family member) makes it clear he values loyalty a lot.

And of course introducing a new element is not the same as 'pulling something out of your ass', despite what man criticisms of the episode seem to posit.

Hi Thirikal. Sombra has apparently fled to Mexico. Starscream is watching Putting Your Hoof Down. Now we're talking about Merriwether Williams, crystal ponies and corn dogs.

*wanders off to look up "osso buco"*

Whoa I think I may have opened up a can of worms regarding Merriweather Williams. But then again the only good episode I've seen from her is Hearth's Warming Eve but what I don't get is why does she like making certain characters into fucking assholes? I don't get it why must she always make characters from innocent, charming characters to unrelenting asshats? Either she's a good writer for Adventure Time and other shows and MLP is just not her territory or she's generally a bad writer.

@Syd Well I'm not really watching the episode I'm more or less asking for other people's opinions on it BEFORE I watch it. And so far it's ranging from Good to Bad basically.

edited 9th Sep '13 5:04:23 PM by Starscream759

Yeah, Merriwether is...polarizing.

She's a different sort of writer. From what I understand she tends to write for shows that have very... vibrant characters, whereas MLP has much more natural, subdued characters. Certainly, I don't think she's at all bad, just kind of adjusting. He episodes have gotten progressively better, and I don't think they were all that bad to begin with though I certainly won't deny their faults.

One thing that benefits her later episodes is that she can pass off the "asshole" role to actual antagonist and other secondary characters. Her character writing still tends towards pretty heavy exaggeration, and her Spike has always been a little weird.

Because exaggerating a character's negative qualities is an easy way to create conflict. The problem is that more often than not, it comes across as feeling cheap or completely out of character for the characters involved. I'd also say that it's a sign of a weak writer, but I have to admit I don't believe I've seen much of Ms. Merriweather's work.

I won't argue with you there.

And while she went a bit to far, I did enjoy that Fluttershy called Pinkie out on her usual antics. Or at least I recall enjoying that when I first saw the episode. Not sure what I'd think now, as it's been some time since I've watched the episode in question.

edited 9th Sep '13 5:08:28 PM by Thirikal

She gets better later.

Also Iron Will is awesome.

Spike was a bit weird as a character well before and after her, though. He's always been a bit... odd. Generally I think he works better as a side or secondary character much better than a spotlight character... like a reverse-Pinkie Pie.

A Pinkie and Spike episode. Now there'd be something. Working together to cross the species sweet barrier, perhaps.

edited 9th Sep '13 5:06:14 PM by kegisak

I think its that her priorities are a bit different. She seems to favor being more flexible with the characters and setting for the sake of a joke. But since all the fans of the show take characterization and continuity super cereal, we find it a bit annoying when Ponyville is a completely different place just to justify having a superhero.

Lightning Dust is a good villain though. My favorite one-off, actually. If they don't have a Gilda-LD team up against Dashy I will be sad.

But yeah, Wonderbolts Acadomy is actually not half bad.

People like Iron Will at least.

I have some really good pony-related news....I got the 2nd Favorites Collection in the mail today!! I pre-ordered it when it first became available for pre-order off of the Toys R Us website, by the way. What's even better is that it came sooner than I expected, because when I first pre-ordered it, it said that the listed shipping date was September 17, and thus I got it 8 days earlier than I even expected to start hoping it might start going through the shipping process. Thankfully, it came upright in the box as well, with no other errors; I saw a review of it on Youtube where someone had gotten it with the ponies placed upside down from the box art!

On the subject of the episode "Putting Your Hoof Down, " that's one I really like, especially for the way that it shows that there can be a middle ground between being a pushover and being aggressive (Fluttershy at the end where she calmly explains that she wasn't satisfied and that "no means no").

edited 9th Sep '13 5:12:06 PM by Rainbow

I find it better to go into episodes without hearing other peoples' opinions of them beforehand. That way, I can form my own opinion of whether the episode is good or bad, without knowing in advance that "most people love/hate/are indifferent to this episode", which might taint my own reaction.

Pretty much what Crow said.

her issues aren't that she is a bad writer overall, it's simply that her writing style is completely at odds with the normal style of the show. She puts her story ahead of the characters, forcing them to change to fit her story. Rather then craft her story to fit the character. And like to make things more cynical and jerkish simply because she likes writing that type of thing and feels its more 'realistic'

Which is wholly incompatible with a character driven and heavy show that focus on the characters more. And is so idealistic.

I'll hold off Putting your Hoof Down till tomorrow cuz that way I'll be able to project my reactions when it's still broad daylight that way. I'll brace myself because it's a Merriwether Williams episode and I'm in for a wild ride with this one.

edited 9th Sep '13 5:18:51 PM by Starscream759

First third, way to much fucking jerk-ass behavior. Second act, went to far with making Flutter's a jerk. Third Third... freaking amazing. That and the shear raw epicness of Iron Will are what save the episode.

Williams definitely does exaggerate the characters a bit, but the only episode that I feel had a major issue as a result of that was MMDW. Basically here's my takes on her episodes:

MMDW: Probably her worst; she modified the setting too heavily and didn't really handle the character interactions well.

Hearth's Warming Eve: I really have no real issues with this. The characters are exaggerated a little, but the plot of the episode was constructed so it made sense to do that.

Putting Your Hoof Down: Exaggerated Fluttershy a little, but it's no more unbelievable than her breakdown in "Best Night Ever". Angel was an ass, but we know so little about him that we can't really call it OOC. Also, Iron Will was awesome.

Dragon Quest: I'm not a fan of this one, but mainly because of the fact that They Wasted a Perfectly Good Plot. The characters were fine, though. They just spent too long messing with the teenage dragons.

Wonderbolt Academy: One of, if not the best s3 episodes. My only gripe is that Pinkie was exaggerated a bit, but in light of how clingy she can be I don't think it was too bad.

Spike at Your Service: Spike was exaggerated a bit much, and the idea of AJ getting her hoof stuck on a pebble was ridiculous, but honestly I found the episode entertaining enough that I can overlook the characterization issues. Aside from the fact that Spike was way too clumsy, I thought his actions were mostly believable.

The TL;DR version is that Williams isn't that much of a worse writer than anyone else; she just got off to a bad start and it tainted people's opinions of later episodes. There are only really like two episodes where the character exaggeration really caused issues.

edited 9th Sep '13 5:23:41 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Why not just watch the thing. You making watching the episodes sound like a stressful and heavy task.

Ya know what? I'll just skip the video reviews in future and just watch the episodes blindly...uhhh how's that sound?

edited 9th Sep '13 5:30:56 PM by Starscream759

3. MMDW, PYHD, and SAYS.

Dragon Quest more fell victim to her "lets just add a bunch of jerks, just to have characters being cynical jerks", issues with her writing.

HWE... yeah it's one of my favorite episodes, since it still HAS the exact same issues her other work does, it's just that story actually managed to be one where her style worked. Mostly all new characters, so no reason to have to gut existing characterization, and a real, believable, and valid in story reason for everypony acting like jerks. Still think the bickering backstage was a bit to far though.

Wonderbolt Academy.. I.. really have NO issues with that, it is amazing.. mostly due to not, in anyway, feeling like a Williams episode.

Blame Discord.

Yeah, her biggest problem is that her first episode sucked. After that people go out of their way to find reasons to dislike them. I agree with JT, other than MMDW, the only one of hers I dislike is Dragon Quest. Why would you tease us with dragon society like that and spend the whole episode on some asshole teenager archetypes you could get anywhere?

Yeah, going in blind would be for the best. After all, that's how many of us went into the episodes.