@Sereg So if this is their written language, then why haven't we seen in anywhere else ever? What writing we have seen has either been A: perfectly legible English, B: normal cartoon scribbles, or C: slightly warped characters that can still be recognized as English.

Also, I seriously doubt that those stone forms of the Elements were carved. They were most likely simply their dormant state.

edited 31st Jul '12 9:31:19 AM by PerpetualLurker

That's the equivalent of demanding that words be carved in gothic font. On a rounded surface. In stone.

EDIT: We have seen writing like that. See the book in the first episode and the poster in The Show Stoppers.

edited 31st Jul '12 9:33:12 AM by Sereg

This needs to be an episode.

http://sonicrainboom93.deviantart.com/art/Luna-and-The-Crusaders-216917884

And Word Of God has already confirmed the main reason that all writing meant to be readable in the show isn't English is to make it easier on the overseas dubs I believe. Everything is supposed to be normal English, or the pony version of it.

@ Sereg: And? These are the most powerful artefacts in the world. I find it hard to believe that no effort was put into their making if they were in fact even carved. Judging by the intro they were originally in another form before turning into another form.

But there's multiple styles of writing in the show. Not to mention that that's a very Doylest interpretation.

EDIT:A: They're active there.

B: Do you have any idea how hard carving is? It's the reason that runes were invented in real ife. Because ordenary letters were too hard to carve.

edited 31st Jul '12 9:38:08 AM by Sereg

Was is the fact that the explanation is Doylist make it less valid?

edited 31st Jul '12 9:38:55 AM by Mio

But it makes sense. All the writing is the same language, but Real Life Writes the Plot and it gets smudged and altered to make the dubbers have an easier time with it.

And your assuming the stones were carved and not that they shifted to that form on their own like they did into necklaces.

@Sereg So, I guess we're once again down to literal interpretation of the small details in the art/animation, eh? This seems to be a common thread in our debates.

If those symbols were really a language and not just normal cartoon page filler, then I have no idea how it would work. There are far too few symbols with them being repeated far too much for that writing to work out to anything understandable, especially if the characters represent concepts, rather than letters or words.

edited 31st Jul '12 9:46:09 AM by PerpetualLurker

@ Sereg: A: And they change yet again when the Mane Six get them. Into a different active state.

B: Unlike Real Life in Equestria they have access to magic. Which is better in some ways than the technology we have now let alone back when we were carving.

I tend to interpret what we're shown as literal unless I have reason to believe otherwise.

Originally they represented concepts. They'd eventually form a natural alphabet. This isn't uncommon.

Cutie marks however, still work on their original way.

@Bad: A: I believe that the active state alters according to the bearers at the time.

B: They were made somehow.

Question for you all. Name any episodes that you really liked but still think they could have used some improvement.

For me, I love the season two finale, but I think that we should have gotten a scene after Chrysalis was defeated with the rest of the mane 4 apoligizing to Twilight {We only got AJ apoligizing to her on-screen}. Don't get me wrong, they had every right to be mad at her after they thought she caused Candance to cry, but after Twilight was proven to be right....... I'm sure they did apoligize, it just would have been nice to see it happen. {That's not even getting into how ovbiously shoe-horned into the show Candance and Shinning Armor were, but that's a diffrent compliant anyway }

Also, I liked It's About Time, but I think they could have handled some parts better {I.E, Not repeating the whole scene where Twilight meets her future self}.

edited 31st Jul '12 9:49:50 AM by marston

If it weren't for the cutie mark, I might have guessed that was a ponified Jasmine instead of a cosplaying Rarity.

Um... they were kind of central to the plot?

edited 31st Jul '12 9:52:53 AM by KylerThatch

@ Sereg: A: So why can't they magically shift into a state between users?

B: Rarity, a fairly unremarkable unicorn magicwise, has a spell that can shape wood into sculptures, it is not unlikely that a Unicorn who's special talent is carving or masonry would not have a spell that can carve into stone, that is the point I was getting at. Also while they had to have been made there is no indication that they were made by mere mortals.

edited 31st Jul '12 9:56:29 AM by Badwolfwho

Um, they do, but I'm assuming that that's their original form.

A: When did Rarity do this?

B: I'm not denying that magic was involved or that they may have been made by non-mortals. I'm just saying that them simplifying isn't a mark against them when not doing so would result in needless complication, especially as simplification is often done for asthetic reasons (see minimalism). Not to mention the fact that the symbol relies on being multi-coloured means that they had to do some simplification anyway.

Twice in Look Before You Sleep, Rarity magics branches into wooden sculptures.

her topiary spell. And there is just far to much variety for each CM to have been thought up at some point by one group of ponies and each one to be part of a hieroglyphic language. If that was true then nopony could have a CM based on something those ponies never thought of or encountered.

@ Sereg: A: I'd say they were created active personally.

B (part A): Look Before You Sleep.

B (part B): So, the basis is that different marks mean different things but they make them less distinct from each other in order to make them more easily distinguishable? And Twilight's Cutie Mark wouldn't need to be multicoloured.

They could have at least put the secondary stars in.

edited 31st Jul '12 10:10:55 AM by Badwolfwho

@Sereg Here's another problem I have with a "marks = symbol" system. What about marks that depict objects that would logically be predated by said written language, like telescopes?

edited 31st Jul '12 10:16:58 AM by PerpetualLurker

"Hey, make one with a sort of sealed glass tube full of sand, except the tube is really really thin in the middle. Their special talent will be timkeeping."

"What does sand have to do with time?"

"I have no idea."

It's purpose isn't language. It just works like a language and cutie marks that represent certain things sometmes have that symbol used elsewhere. I believe that the first case of a specific talent has a symbol decided by the pony that earned it which is then standardised. It's pretty magical, but we know that about cutie marks already.

Cutie marks that have modern symbols just represent modern talents.

With all this discussion on Cutie Marks, it's going to be interesting to see what the Crusaders' Cutie Marks will look like when they finally get them!

You know that old pony named Mr. Greenhooves? He doesn't have a Cutie Mark. He probably never discovered his purpose in life or his special talent. I bet the Crusaders look at him, imagine themselves as old and not having any CM, and then panic!

Still far far to much variety in them for them to all conform to one system, I'm sticking with the CM is based on what that pony best identified, if even unconsciously, as a symbol for their purpose once they discover what it is.

One way to further investigate the whole "cutie marks as languages" thing.

If you were a pony, what would your cutie mark be?

(And this must be about the dorkiest question ever asked in this thread, nay, in the whole TV Tropes forums... )

edited 31st Jul '12 10:42:07 AM by Carciofus

I think it basically comes down to how you interpret what you see in the show. I personally think the most logical way of interpreting it is simply that each CM is simply based on the pony who gets it and their interpretation thereof because it's the simplest explanation that's consistent with what we see in the show. Not that Sereg's interpretation is wrong but I feel like it really overcomplicates the process for no real reason. It's possible that each CM has a specific meaning, but nothing in the show indicates that, so I see no reason to assume it's the case.

1. I'm pretty sure we've had way worst conversations in the past. 2. Probably a book. Most of what I do consists of either reading or writting stuff, and a book is more classy than a computer screen.

edited 31st Jul '12 10:41:36 AM by JapaneseTeeth