(Forget what I said here, if you managed to catch it. I somehow mixed up Complete Monster with Moral Event Horizon in my head.)

edited 23rd Jul '11 6:21:05 AM by KylerThatch

No worries . I think what he wants is a Card-Carrying Villain instead however.

edited 23rd Jul '11 6:22:52 AM by FallenLegend

Complete Monster is kind of a subjective trope, though, isn't it? I mean, no matter how bad a character might be, there's always going to be some fan who'll try to look for sympathetic qualities in them.

but whatever the fan wants, there really is no sympathetic traits to a Complete Monster. and you are fooling yourself if you think Complete Monsters don't exist in real life.

... Mmm That's a very complex debate... Let's not get into that.

But I will say that I am part of the crowd that believes that there isn't such thing as irredemable. As I said Loves really is the answer to everything but not in an irrealistic The Power of Love way. But in a Earn Your Happy Ending way.

edited 23rd Jul '11 6:57:46 AM by FallenLegend

people are not born evil but they can become evil. I won't name names for obvious reasons but there is one historical figure that pretty much the whole planet views as a soulless monster. I think you know who I'm talking about.

there are so many examples of pure evil in fiction, why can't it work on this show?

Even he wrongfully believed he was doing the right thing.

The answer relies in the title Friendship Is Magic. Friendship is one kind of love after all.And Love forgives everything

edited 23rd Jul '11 7:05:41 AM by FallenLegend

"Winter Wrap Up" was just on. Two points of interest. Right at the start of the episode a sleepy Spike explictily says to Twilight, "You're not mommy." But "Cutie Mark Chronicles" seems to suggest that Twilight was the one who raised him. What's up with that?

We can see armbands denoting the team leaders. Dash runs the weather team and AJ runs the plant team. However thhe pony wearing the tan armband donoting the animal team leader wasn't Fluttershy but a pink and purple pony who only shows up n a couple of shots. I'm bad at keeping track of background ponies, (unless they're Derpy or a time lord, ) so could somepony tell me who this was?

I thought Fluttershy was the leader. and the thing about Spike was fixed in "Owls well that ends well"

I think it may be that spike looks twilight as a mother figure.

I think it was used to show that the mane cast isn't necessarily the leads at everything.

edited 23rd Jul '11 7:18:42 AM by FallenLegend

back to my subject though. I see no reason why Fi M can't have at least one Complete Monster.

Fluttershy is good with animals, but not so much with other ponies. Team leaders need to be good at working with other ponies. So it makes sense for someone else to lead the Animal Team.

The animal team leader was given the name Sparkler according to the Wiki.

Lol yeah Fluttershy would have trouble for even speaking. Remember how she couldn't even tell twilight her name ?

edited 23rd Jul '11 7:24:30 AM by FallenLegend

It simply doesn't work for the world at hand, and especially not given the show's true audience. It would be nice, as adults, to see a show where all the happy pretty ponies get their world shaken up by krastaus the glue maker, but imagine how that would look to a child - a villain who just comes in and wants to wreck everything up, for no real reason? That'd be horrifying!

And yeah, I just don't think it fits the tone. We've had ponies who weren't redeemed, sure, but at the end of the day noone suffered for it but them, and that was part of the moral. But a complete monster? Who suffers when they aren't redeemed? Who suffers when they run away? It's the next victim, and even little kids will know that; when the bad guy runs, they aren't gone for good. They might not even stop while we aren't looking.

Just figured something out by the way, little piece of advice: When you move back through the thread, don't say 'back to my topic'. You may not be, but it makes you sound sort of selfish. People can be late to the party in commenting on someone, and I've seen two convos going on at once in the same thread.

edited 23rd Jul '11 7:42:43 AM by kegisak

again, I don't see why this show can't have a Complete Monster in it.

Or get anypony's attention in Dragonshy

edited 23rd Jul '11 7:45:58 AM by gingerninja666

@ kegisak. I missed your post. but I still don't get why a Complete Monster wouldn't work.

Alright, let's go for the play by play, then. From the article itself, the qualifiers for a complete monster are:

You don't see any reason why that doesn't work in a show about magical, talking, pastel coloured goddamn ponies? Seriously? The one villain so far, the one true villain, Nightmare Moon, was doing what she was doing because she wanted to be appreciated. That, right there, should give you a clue.

Yeah, that doesn't work at all in the context of a children's show that's focused on friendship.

Agreed. It just doesn't work with the show's tone, setting or message - which are three pretty solid reasons not to have a Complete Monster villain in your show, I should think.

Incidentally, JTeeth... when did the emoticons in your sig become not-Kyubey anymore?

If I include the ears, the sig is too long.

I think it could work there are a lot or examples of Complete Monsters in kids show and movies. just look at the western animation section of the Complete Monster page.

edited 23rd Jul '11 9:05:28 AM by Ben10fan

"It isn't that the wind is blowing, it's what the wind is blowing."

Likewise, the issue here isn't that this is a kids show. Yes, kids shows and movies have had complete monsters in them. Judge Claude Froll, Sat AM's Robotnik, etc. etc. But you'll notice that all these shows and movies were remarkably dark, or took a stark tonal shift when the monster showed up. It just doesn't work for the tone of the show. If a monster were introduced, it would change the tone, and I for one don't want that.

What's so great about Complete Monsters anyway? Unless done correctly in a serious setting, they often end up being boring (The examples on Western Animation I feel cement this.) and are never as good as villains who have sympathetic, or at least UNDERSTANDABLE motivations. Complete monsters in kids shows are normally Card Carrying Villains who are 1 dimensionally evil

edited 23rd Jul '11 9:29:09 AM by gingerninja666