Thing is, it didn't get that bad until they already hatched the plan, so deflating RD's ego was the point of the plan from square one. Though I agree that they should have commented on the fact that Rainbow Dash was endangering other ponies by going through her catchphrase all the time.

I'm the one who is sighing because this episode frustrates me!

And that was always my main issue with their plan from the beginning.

edited 27th Nov '11 2:29:16 PM by Mio

Wow, this episode's controversial isn't it? Is this how things were when feeling pinkie keen first aired?

@Kerrah, last page:

Actually, Applejack isn't quite on the same plane as Luna in that Picture. Rarity is, and her eyes are on the level with Luna's chest.

To look at it from a doylist perspective: Luna is probably the exact same asset/file/what have you in Luna Eclipsed as in Elements of harmony 2. There's even an animation error in the episode where they don't completely replace her mane, so we know she's the same asset. There's no reaon why they would alter her size for it. She's the same height, the hair just makes her look different.

@JT I thought they came up with the plan during the scene in Sugar Cube corner? That would've been AFTER RD started endangering people with her catchphrase.

Also... What was the alternative? When has RD ever listened to reason? She has, but do you know when those moments were? AFTER she's been put through an embaressing event or failure. She's only ever taken criticism with a smashed ego. She was riding her ego high at that moment, and it was clear that she was NEVER coming down. I've also mentioned that RD was only going to get worse as time went on, and that this was a lesson she NEEDED to learn eventually, so learning it from her friends was probably preferable to learning it somewhere down the line.

The mane cast demonstrated that they understood how RD's mind works. She had to be softened up before she would listen to what anypony had to say.

edited 27th Nov '11 2:42:03 PM by gingerninja666

What color should a pony version of Talim be?

edited 27th Nov '11 2:41:45 PM by RandomChaos

Exactly. the other mane six knew RD well enough to know where this would end up, and that the MMDW would be the only way to get her to listen to reason before it was to late.

edited 27th Nov '11 2:42:33 PM by Seraphem

What I really find odd about people's reactions is people talking about how they 'humiliated' Dash. When did they ever humiliate her? They just did what they came to, and left. If she was ever humiliated it was her own fault for trying to hard to be adulated.

also exactly. The closest they would have come to 'humiliating' her on there own was when they were ll talking about how great the MMDW was. And thought it could be open to interpretation, I took at as them trying to show Dash what her behavior from earlier was like for everypony else.

Stop trying to steal my thunder, kegi!

I was on a roll!!!

I don't think I'm doing a very good job of making myself understood.

I think we saw very different things from the mane cast activities before they enacted their plan.

You saw a group of friends that were concerned that their friend's new found behavior would cause great harm and that they needed to do something about it before things got worse.

I saw a group of friends who found their friend's new found uppity behavior annoying and wanted to take her down a peg before she got more obnoxious. The fact that they saved a lot of ponies lives in the process was mostly incidental .

I guess I just found the mane five's motives for doing it to be really suspect is all.

edited 27th Nov '11 2:52:42 PM by Mio

Exactly, Ginger can handle this one.

edit C-C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!!!!

edit @ Mio, I'll agree they probably wanted to deflate Dash's ego a bit as well, and won't deny they were most likely a bit annoyed with her attitude. But i'm just convinced that the main reason they did it was to help Dash, more then it was to shut her up. but yeah, sure her being so annoying helped them make that decision.

edited 27th Nov '11 2:54:31 PM by Seraphem

Yes, the mane cast were being harsh, but y'know why?

I'd say it was a bit of both. Even if only the latter was true though, BEING OBNOXIOUS IS STILL A BAD THING!! This scheme was the only way they could've taught her this lesson. From my perspective I couldn't see any other way it could've gone. RD, especially UBER EGOTISTICAL MODE!RD doesn't listen to reason

edited 27th Nov '11 2:55:43 PM by gingerninja666

I think this episode suffers in the same way FPK did. Misinterpretation (by you or by me, Mio) of the moral because of how poorly it was worded in the actual episode.

edited 27th Nov '11 3:01:14 PM by gingerninja666

To be honest I think it would have been better from a storytelling perspective if we had seen the full consequences of Rainbow Dash's actions and that they were the catalyst for Rainbow Dash's change.

Like I said before, I have experienced these kinds of "stealth lesson teaching things" from my own loved ones, and. . .let's just say that if Rainbow had gotten angry at her friends for pulling that kind of stunt I wouldn't blame her

Yeah. I guess that is what it ultimately comes down to.

So combination of differing assumptions and interpretations were what lead us her. I'm glad that is cleared up.

edited 27th Nov '11 3:27:22 PM by Mio

Which I think is the important factor here. Unless it's the point of the episode, I think the mane cast understand each other pretty well (They ARE worthy enough to wield the elements of HARMONY after all). They knew RD well enough to know how this would go down.

I really think that's one of the few overarching problems with this show, many many things are often rushed or not presented as fully as they could be. But that is an issue inherent in the format, a half hour kids show. A lot of the issues some of the episodes have would be cleared up if the episodes were an hour long and had more time to build up and explain stuff. But that's speaking as a brony, not as someone this show is aimed at.

Sometimes you just have to make allowances for it being a kids show, and be grateful the people making it do such a kick-ass job with what they have.

Here's the quote:

There is an earlier quote (Post #837) which mentions that there were some small changes (to Luna and several other characters, including Celestia and Big Macintosh), but judging by the other quote I'm guessing these changes didn't involve size.

This, basically. As much I want to explain everything within the context of the show, it's impossible to totally ignore the Doylist side of things. Bellisario's Maxim is eventually going to come into effect. The people who make the show aren't perfect, and they're working under constraints that mean things are probably never going to be as good as they could be.

Anyway, I think it's a combination of the two factors that triggered the rest of the cast's plan. Yes, RD hadn't put anypony in danger when they instigated it, but given her posturing it really isn't that difficult to see that she valued the adulation more than the ponies she was helping, and that it was going to cause problems. My main complaint with the moral is that it seemed like RD didn't really "get" it on her own; everypony else basically said it for her, and she just parroted it back to them. I think she really did learn the lesson, but I think it would have made her seem less jerkish if she had at least kinda had that realization on her own, the way Rarity did in Sisterhooves Social.

edited 27th Nov '11 3:18:13 PM by JapaneseTeeth

I guess my big problem is that her "breakdown" just wasn't that entertaining and, for lack of a better term, a bit "meaner" than the other characters' previous breakdowns. It was fun seeing other characters revealed to be surprisingly (and hilariously) dangerous, while Dash just becomes pathetic.

I thought RD's breakdown was adorable

This was the writer's first episode. I know I can't use that as TOO much of an excuse, but I'm willing to give him/her the benefit of the doubt until his/her's next episode.

edited 27th Nov '11 3:31:40 PM by gingerninja666

^^That's a good point. Twilight snaps very satisfyingly, for instance, and just one episode ago, we saw Dash break down in a way that was both entirely sympathetic and quite in-character for her. Instead of focusing on the fact that being trapped might have been fatal, she was upset about being left alone - not because there would be no one there to praise her, but because she's an extrovert and loves her friends. Whereas her breakdown in this episode, if it can even be called that, amounts to her basically giving up her pride entirely and performing menial tasks (most of which don't even need to be done; ask Granny Smith) for the barest scrap of praise. It's not healthy, nor does it feel natural to her character. Twilight's OCD was exaggerated in much the same way for "Lesson Zero", but for some reason, that didn't feel anywhere near as jarring.

edited 27th Nov '11 3:33:19 PM by RedSavant

I guess it's one of those weird YMMV things, because I didn't think it was all that jarring.

RD's never really been put in a position where she's been upstaged before, especially not after experiencing what was probably the BIGGEST ego trip of her entire life. Praise is addicting, (believe me, I know) especially to someone like her.

I still loved the Sparkler scene though

edited 27th Nov '11 3:41:51 PM by gingerninja666

Well, it wasn't so much jarring as it was cringeworthy on hindsight. Dash resorts to using her teeth to open a peanut butter jar so somepony will praise her? That sounds like addictive behavior.

I probably would've been cringing too if I hadn't found her "TA DAH" and "The weeds that were trying to eat this grass!" lines so adorable

Wait, how did tapping the jar of peanut butter help anything? I thought she was trying to smash it

also, HOW ELSE ARE PONIES SUPPOSED TO GET JARS OPEN IF NOT WITH THEIR TEETH?!

edited 27th Nov '11 3:55:48 PM by gingerninja666