Sort of sounds like how my whole day's been, Apple. Thankfully I'm breaking up the routine by going to a midnight showing of the Shining at a local cinema. Right now I'm drinking some rum and really wishing I had something to go with it.

edited 24th May '13 12:59:42 PM by Thirikal

Did I say shitty?

Sorry I meant Peter Kay's stand up. That's definitely not shitty.

I spent all morning helping out with Field Day at the school where I work, and right now I'm camping in the school office.

The problm comes when elves are portrayed this way when they can be a lot more interesting if you look at how a culture like theirs opperates. On Giant In The Playground, there was some fascinating exloration of their culture for example. Such as a discussion on how elf art includes such msterpieces as "Spot of paint I took twenty years to decide where to place".

I think a lot of it comes from the flanderization they get from the Lord of the Rings, but the Silmarillion shows quite another side to them.

Yes they are harmonious creatures, but they're also in perfect sink with their darker emotions. Just look what happened with Feanor and his line. Genocidal kin-slaying, the kickstarter for the biggest war in Middle-earth's history, and all because of being jealous for his greatest work of art.

@ JT

What level school is it?

@Sereg: I'm thread hopping, so I'm assuming here, but if you're talking about the trend of flipping the bird to elves by pointing out for all their ideas of being the superior culture, they're in the same sort of society as everyone else, looking at their culture like that almost kind of makes them look even more arrogant. If they consider their society superior because they simply have different values - as is obvious, really - well, every culture values different things, and would therefore sort of consider their culture to be the best because it's what they value. The elves are just the only ones who go waving their cultural cocks around about it. They're like the America of fantasy

edited 24th May '13 1:22:07 PM by kegisak

Ehh, more like the France of fantasy.

Eh, in my experience the french just kind of try to keep their culture from getting 'tainted'. They don't really prance about showing it off.

Largely because they don't give a shit about what us filthy anglos care, I guess.

Of course my main experience with the french is actually the Quebecois, which is a bit different, so I dunno.

edited 24th May '13 1:35:18 PM by kegisak

@Sereg: K-7.

@Kegisak: I might be biased, being an American and all, but I don't think that's the best example. A lot of Americans are like that not because they view their culture as being better for no good reason, but because they view it as being more practical, or at least less persnickety. Like people who say American food is better aren't saying it's better solely because it's American, but because they view it as being less pointlessly gussied. I.e. they'll think a hamburger and fries is better than a fancy steak medallion or whatever because they it doesn't need all the pretense and whatever.

Think of the difference between AJ and Rarity's approach to smores. Rarity looks down on AJ's method because it's uncouth and messy, and AJ doesn't like Rarity's method because she thinks it's needlessly finicky. AJ would be the American.

France is... kinda on a fence. On one hand, the (perceived) tendency to try to keep their culture free of outside influence makes them come across as snobby with whole "we can't let our culture be tainted!" thing.

America is almost the opposite way; we'll take just about anything and sort of co-opt it.

edited 24th May '13 1:49:55 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Okay, I probably should have pointed this out then, but I was mostly making a joke. You know, playing off the stereotype. I realize that joke had the potential to offend and confuse, etc. etc.

That said, that does kind of run in line with my point. Simply being more practical isn't necessarily a point in it's favour. Many of the cultures that a practical person would consider silly simply put that emphasis on appearance, because they have extremely deep and artistic cultures. Yes, an inch-wide piece of Steak Bleu an a single asparagus seems quite silly, yes, but to a frenchman that mean is art, in and of itself. IT's different values. An American values simplicity and practicality, but not all cultures do. Just because you have a reason why you consider your culture better doesn't necessarily mean you aren't being assumptive if you go around telling people it's better.

edited 24th May '13 1:48:56 PM by kegisak

So you're using smores as a metaphor for cultural posturing between the American and French ways of life as a comparison of the elves? Which has what to do with ponies aside from Rarity and AJ?

@Kegisak: Oh I wasn't saying that America is right. They're still wrong, just for a different reason than you said. Part of the American arrogance is that they think they're right because they think have a better reason than other cultures.

That Values Dissonance was kind of my point. Both cultures look at each other with disdain, and when they do, they're both wrong. It's back to the AJ and Rarity thing. They both have valid points, but they treat their points like they're the only points that matter.

edited 24th May '13 1:53:11 PM by JapaneseTeeth

@Kegi: Depending on the fantasy setting that's how elves act about their culture too. I guess I say France because it is a culture actually look up too and consider good, while American culture is viewed. . .less favorably to say the least.

Right, I agree with that, yeah. Any sort of cultural exchange must be just that - compare, contrast, and see what you can take from it. LBYS could actually be taken as a guide for international diplomacy - AJ learns that stopping to observe and plan can be useful, even if it's not for aesthetic senses, and Rarity learns sometimes you must simply leap in and get yourself dirty, even if it's not for the sake of manual labour. Take what you can appreciate, leave what you don't need.

???

You're right to make the smore comparison though.

@Dark: There's a reason I love The Silmarillion so much.

@Kegi: It's not about thir culture being "better". It's about it being "different" because evn their biologys very different from ours. The thread I mentioned introduced a concept I love called "long time". Elves are normally in long time. Their ability to interact with the orld is slowed considerably but this keeps them comfortable and healthy. When stressed, they can switch to short time which is how most other races interact with the world, but it's unpleasant. And interacting maningfully with a member of another race requires short time. The reason the elf acts as though your presence is giving him a headache is because it is. (The unpleasant effets of short time can be mitigated with effort though.)

@Sereg: Kindergarten through seventh grade. So kids of age 5-6 to kids of around age 13 or so.

Also, that sounds like a rather interesting concept.

edited 24th May '13 2:01:59 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Huh... that's actually a really interesting concept, actually.

I've been reading Wheel of Time lately, and from what I can tell the Ogiers(thing trolls with a Green Thumb) work kind of similarly - they seem to experience time much differently, because the Ogier they meet considers having waited three years for his village elders to allow him to leave before just kind of peacing out on them to have been extremely hasty. I mean, there's the simple perception of time being different depending on how long you've lived, but he's only about 70, and I doubt a 70 year old person would regard three years as the equivalent of a few weeks. So I imagine for him being around people is quite stressful because of how hectic they must seem. Like talking to a dozen children all on sugar highs.

I once saw this channel that proudly referred to itself as "the king of trash TV".

I don't remember its name - and if you somehow know, please do not tell me, as I'd then have to seek it out due to Bile Fascination - but I think that was the precise moment my legendary faith-in-humanity swings began.

To be fair, practicality would be superior back in the day. It's just we've long since passed the threshold where jacking around being impractical would jeopardize peoples' futures or lives (granted, it still can, but usually just in serious excess).

I don't think a hamburger and fries makes a good example, though. Sure, they're typically faster in terms of raw speed, but unless one is going out of their way to get the healthier stuff, their nutritional value is going to be pretty awful and if eaten too regularly, possibly a long-term problem.

Hey, at least they admitted it. Trashy TV that knows it's trashy TV can be quite fun.

edited 24th May '13 2:12:49 PM by PurpleDalek

Also when it comes down to it, fries aren't that convenient to make anyways. Boiling, mashing putting them in a stew...

But, that's aside the point.

@Kuroi: I was talking less about health or the practicality of making it and more about presentation. A hamburger is one of those things where you just sort of stack everything, dump the fries on the plate and as long as you can eat it, you're good, as opposed to fancier cuisine with a heavy emphasis on presentation and taking the time to organize the elements of the dish.

I.e. this◊ vs. this.◊

edited 24th May '13 2:18:06 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Hmmm, okay. I feel like that criteria is a bit narrow, though.

Speaking of food, its just as well I'm back at the gym because I recently discovered a BBQ place down town that serves the best food I've ever had at really low prices. If I wasn't at the gym 5 days a week I'd be a big fat bastard very soon.

When my friends come back to Belfast that is the place I'll be taking them out to.

Do you guys reckon if Pinkie wasn't so hyperactive, she'd be fat?