At the same time though she endlessly lies to herself that she doesn't need help and can handle any task her friends need.

Meanwhile RD has suffered a nervous breakdown due to how open she got about her flaws in Sonic Rainboom. She does show denial, but as said she is an 'embodied id', her drive to pamper her own ego and bluntly look about herself seem more genuine.

And now to give their side of the argument, Stan Marsh and a retarded fish:

edited 17th Dec '12 2:27:46 AM by Psi001

I'll just file this under agree to disagree :V

Roboshi reclaims his crown as King of Faves

Does Lauren want back in? I'd welcome her :3

You wa SHOCK~

I don't agree with that.

Was certain the retarded fish would run rings around this debate though.

I admit it may have made for an amusing plot line, say a point where they decide to switch elements and they don't work, showing some more palpable reasons they represent their original ones.

edited 17th Dec '12 2:30:43 AM by Psi001

I don't see it. Dash's nervous breakdown was because she was utterly terrified of opening up and revealing her weakness to the crowd. Even after her character development, she opens up to Scootaloo to admit that she used to be scared of campfire stories—but she also insists that Scootaloo not tell anyone else about that.

I admit their are some odd conflicts to show they may not work, but still the links to their current elements still seem kind of underwelming, the respective characters don't seem exceptionally loyal or honest compared to the other ponies, who have at least had a huge establishment moment showing why they fit their elements to a tee more than the others.

edited 17th Dec '12 2:36:29 AM by Psi001

Loyalty and honesty are both traits that get messed up because we overthink them, but for different reasons. I like the idea that when the Elements were sorting out the Manes, it came down to Loyalty and Honesty, and Loyalty wound up picking Dash because while she's hotheaded enough to undermine a lot of her better traits, it makes her so bullheaded that not being loyal doesn't even enter her mind. Honesty picked Applejack because she knows how to deliver it in a way people are more likely to accept instead of throwing it in their face.

The main problem is that there hasn't really been much that's pushed that aspect of their character to its limit.

edited 17th Dec '12 2:43:25 AM by Pykrete

I dunno, for some reason the two actually seem more fleshed out with the other's elements as their key driving force.

I could see a few amusing scenarios being made from their current elements though, eg. AJ learning to make 'little white lies' (and likely going overboard due to having little premise on it) due to a moment of Brutal Honesty hurting someone she's devoted to, and RD, well she's superhero material, there's many scenarios they could make out of her altruism to someone else (and likely fantasizing too much in the whole heroism ideal).

edited 17th Dec '12 2:48:01 AM by Psi001

I think that sorta ties into the fact that any attempt to divide Harmony or Friendship into Gotta Catch 'Em All pieces is going to wind up incomplete and/or arbitrary.

@Psi: I agree that RD and AJ qualified for each other's element, but that doesn't mean that they don't also qualify for their own.

In the mechanics of the RPG I made anbout the show, everypony has a numerical rating in each of the six virtues. AJ and RD have high scores in both virtues which is hardly unusual.

I guess it's more, like Pykrete said, there hasn't been an instance that has really tested their respective element and shown how they stick to it to a extent even the other ponies wouldn't. eg. Rarity has had her generosity taken to a high extreme most others would draw the line, while Fluttershy is an Extreme Doormat that has guilt over nearly every slightly hurtful thing she does, compared to most of the other ponies that have at least some Jerk with a Heart of Gold traits. And of course there's Pinkie, who is laughing in the face of demonic threats.

edited 17th Dec '12 2:56:40 AM by Psi001

Psi's got it right, as far as I'm concerned. The Eigen Plot in the pilot was close, but there's a difference between 'refuse to join up with some random Obviously Evil flying team you've never heard of in the middle of a mission to save the planet' and actual, real, solid loyalty.

edited 17th Dec '12 2:57:24 AM by RedSavant

I'm also not positive how AJ's moment in the pilot qualified that highly for honesty either, good negotiating and comforting skills perhaps, but honesty I don't quite get. It seemed more to rely on trust on Twilight's part.

edited 17th Dec '12 3:01:17 AM by Psi001

The Elements operate on an "Eh, close enough" basis when selecting their bearers.

While I'm at it, The Sixth Element is a complete wildcard, and will go along with anything, as long as the prospective bearer can spin a convincing explanation for their theory about the Sixth Element's identity.

This morning, my dream had a bizarre mix of a Magic: The Gathering competition (even though I haven't played seriously since Mirrodin-Kamigawa!), some strange nice old dude who turned out to be Santa Claus and gave me some nice Old Power cards, and I swear Luna made a cameo appearance on the moon that appeared in the dreamscape's night sky.

Finally, she shows up after many, many dreams. Previously it was just random Pinkie cameos and Yukari Yakumo (or her umberella!) showing up in the background.

@Meta: The 6th Element of Harmony fulfills the same role as the Ruling 7th Chaos Emerald, being the Unifier that unites the chaos and makes it into Power Enriched by the Heart.

edited 17th Dec '12 3:08:52 AM by AceOfScarabs

The sixth element cheated by being ability based rather than personality based. Magic is what Twilight is studying in devotedly and clearly surpasses all of the other six in (largely because all but one doesn't even have that ability). There is of course the 'friendship is magic' connection however, which Twilight was originally the least devoted to, but then learned excessively by that point (abiding by moments such as Lesson Zero, to almost Knight Templar degrees at times).

edited 17th Dec '12 3:14:02 AM by Psi001

@Red: I agree that the pilot didnt exactly demonstrate real honesty and loyalty, but I do think RD is loyal and AJ is honest.

EDIT: I think that the bearer of the sixth element has to demonstrate both magic and friendship. They need a bond with each of the other bearers as well.

edited 17th Dec '12 3:19:01 AM by Sereg

I agree, but so far it's also in the same light you could say all six of the ponies aren't irredeemable Jerkasses. They all have basic good qualities and standards that interchange with each other, but the other's have shown to excell in ways it wouldn't with a different character.

edited 17th Dec '12 3:20:02 AM by Psi001

Eh, I figure the Elements have their reasons for selecting their ponies of choice :V

@Psi: I mostly agree. I do think tat AJ's honesty is significant though due to how foreign deceit is to her though. And I think that RD is more loyal than average though. That said, I am of the veiw that most ponies qualify for at least one element of harmony.

I admit AJ's element is a bit more developed, though I do find it ironic most of her flawed moments are actually driven by loyalty and not wanting to fail someone (she is known as the most reliable pony in town, and she doesn't want to ruin that reputation). Meanwhile RD's moments are driven more by her 'id' and her bare bones viewpoint leading her not to know when to keep her mouth shut (she dug herself into a hole by being so upfront about how awesome she thought she was, or how much she thought reading sucked).

edited 17th Dec '12 3:36:45 AM by Psi001

Twily's personal Hearth Warming Tree :3

'A Rather Festive Twilight' Level 100 Horn.

Also, since it was buried last time, here's my fanfic, in case I can get any critiques before I publish it.

edited 17th Dec '12 4:27:07 AM by SuperGex

Rockman X Street Fighter. Aw yeah it is AWESOME.

Sledding :3

Human!Celestia

Dashie as Batmare

edited 17th Dec '12 5:10:17 AM by AceOfScarabs

I think the problem is we're expecting people (yes, ponies are still people) to be shining pillars of virtue instead of, you know, people.

What's on this Saturday? Apple Family Reunion, Spike At Your Service, or the unrevealed episode?