If they're redeemed they shouldn't be antagonist! Calling horse crap on that dude.

As a a page top, my favorite piece from the show.

edited 12th Apr '12 7:38:30 PM by Chadaman99

@Ace I've seen how you feel about us, and I've been Glomped before. It doesn't bother me very much at this point, but some other ponies might be shocked.

I won't deny that villains often end up boring after switching sides, but I think that's more a fault of poor writing than it is a fundamental fault of Heel Face Turns.

Zuko is actually an example where I think changing sides is the best thing to happen to his character. He wasn't nearly as broody and emo, which was a massive improvement.

@Crowfall

Because I NEVER find the former-villain INTERESTING after they've turned good.

The ROAD to becoming good is fascinating (them slowly realising that they have a sense of morality, and finding themselves incapable of killing people. and the conflict that creates within his own ranks. THAT's amazing and intriguing) but the character they are after the change always bores me.

Go with three.

On a zeppelin.

You don't have to watch it if you don't want to Ginger. And the heel-face turn or whatever happens in (spoilers) the very end, when there are only like, 7 episodes left

Azula is a threatening villain though. Zhao is an okay villain in Season 1. But the show definitely picks up after around episode 10 or so. Before it's good, but not something that would make me a giant fangirl.

As for Zuko, he was more of an Antagonist than a Villain. I never really saw him as being particularly villainous.

Not even...Luna?

Character Development > no character development. A Heel Face Turn at the very end of a story doesn't really leave room for development; it just says "Oh, the character is good now" without really showing how they've changed. Having that at the end just rings kinda hollow unless we get to see them deal with the consequences of their decisions. That's just my take on it, though.

Also, this.

But yeah, ponies. I see Cheerilee is back.

@Cheerilee: Do you have any students that are harder to deal with than others? Just about every class has one or two that tend to be a bit rowdy.

edited 12th Apr '12 7:41:24 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Huh. The author of Substitute Harmony Completely rewrote his story. I wonder if it is readable now...

Plus, a villain loses menace and competence after they become good. I don't care about the CMOA's of heroes, so I stop caring for the cool things they're capable of doing

@ginger

For what it's worth, Zuko's road to good is long and complicated, and his actual Heel Face Turn doesn't take place until late in the last season.

It more stems from the way I look at the Villain/Hero Dichotomy. I care little for heroes, but also don't want the villain to die

You know ging, you remind me of an antagonist.

See?

edited 12th Apr '12 7:44:05 PM by Chadaman99

@Chada I've said MANY FUCKING TIMES that I find Luna boring

I don't care about the CMOA's of heroes, so I stop caring for the cool things they're capable of doing

Then why do you care so much when Applejack doesn't get enough cool stuff to do?

I don't read all the post.

edited 12th Apr '12 7:43:43 PM by Chadaman99

@Crowfall because there are exceptions to every rule. House is another one

What? Me finding Luna more boring than Celestia makes me evil?

edited 12th Apr '12 7:44:50 PM by gingerninja666

Miss Cheerilee, you need to keep a close eye on Diamond Tiara. That filly is nothing but trouble.

Well, you might like the Spin-Off series a little more. The villain looks pretty menacing so far. He looks pretty cool already and he's only appeared for, like, 30 seconds so far. Plus, he has good motivation and will likely have an interesting back story. Plus, I really like the main character. She's rebellious and confident, but not so much that she feels like a Mary Sue. She gets frustrated and even though she is automatically a prodigy for being born the Avatar, she still has a lot to learn and even on things she has already "mastered, " she can always improve.

BTW, I've already watched the first two episodes at least 5 times. I'm still not tired of watching it

edited 12th Apr '12 7:46:38 PM by ilsemmr

Can we not do this whole hero/villain argument again? We all have different things we like in media, and having this argument again isn't really going to change much.

And now back to ponies.

What Element are you again, Ginger?

Yay! Ponies! If you could have an actual pony as a pet, would you actually get one?

Me: Hell yes!

Isn't it wrath?

edited 12th Apr '12 7:47:25 PM by ilsemmr

@JT Chada started it by looking down on me

... I'll never find soemthing I enjoy...

@Ginger: You find Luna boring? I... I...

Ah, yes, Ponies. I would like to put forth that Ponies are rad. What say you all?