@Seraph How in the world was Spike's character mangled? This is probably the truest to Spike's character any episode's been in a long while. The whole clutz thing was kinda bad, but that was an overdone slapstick gag, not a character point, and slapstick gags are way more Polsky's thing.

You're just searching for reasons not to like a writer, honestly.

edited 30th Dec '12 5:41:19 PM by PerpetualLurker

okay mangled was a bit much but, him being THAT clumsy, not noticing the huge mess, it, there is no way in hell that's him. He lives with the most OCD pony in existence, and we've seen him cook before, and never with those results. while that overall characterization was decent, that part just, just did not mesh with anything we've seen before.

And while Polsky does like the slapstick, it's stuff that is still in character, and the non character driven gags tend to be Looney Tunes shout outs. This was neither. And yes, it's only because it follows the already established pattern of her caring more about her story then about the established facts, and once more, she has made HUGE improvements on that, but as we saw, still evident.

@Seraphem: I agree that they overdid the slapstick, but I don't think it's entirely her fault either. If anything Polsky likes slapstick just as much if not more than she does, and I feel like you're trying to single her out for something that honestly I could see just about any writer doing. Out of all the episodes she's written, MMDW is the only one where I think she seriously sacrificed pre-established characterization and setting for the sake of gags or plot. (I'm not a fan of Dragon Quest either, but that's for entirely different reasons.) HWE, DQ, and Wonderbolt Academy, all did pretty well with the characterization. Trying to pass off "sacrificing characterization for plot" as a trend in her episodes seems a bit much when only like 2 of 5 of her episodes really demonstrate that problem. MMDW obviously screwed that up, and this episode was a bit wonky in how Spike was handled, but honestly I don't think it was that bad.

Out of the others, I can't think of anything they contain that qualifies under that particular issue.

edited 30th Dec '12 5:56:19 PM by JapaneseTeeth

He totally noticed the messes he was making. That's why after every time he makes a mess he goes and tries to clean it up. Unfortunately, he accidentally makes things worse while doing so (which is, again, more an over done Rule of Funny thing than a real character point).

As for the "not caring about established facts" point, even when Williams gets characters wrong a bit (which was only one episode, IMO), she's huge on callbacks and continuity. I'm going to have to say that you're flat out wrong on that one.

@ Seraph: Overly cynical? Which episode was this?

Even PYHD just FELT off, not normal. HWE, the backstage bickering just felt to forced and unnatural, and i'll admit I had no clue DQ was her and no real issues with that one.

as to the cynicism, PYHD had the town feeling like a bunch of jerks, MMDW, well was MMDW, HWE gets'a pass for having a good reason for the in fighting. And she flat out said herself in an interview she likes interjecting doeses of cynicism into her work because it's more "realistic".

You keep referencing that, what interview is this? As far as I can find, she is very reclusive and doesn't really have any sort of public persona at all.

PYHD didn't have the town being that jerkish. For most of the first stall Fluttershy wasn't in the line or refused to speak up and let them know she was. For the second stall prices change. The Cherry Vendor was just one pony.

And besides this is a market. When money is on the line it makes sense for them to be looking out for their best interests.

I have never gotten the complaint about the town being out of character in PYHD.

edited 30th Dec '12 6:09:33 PM by Badwolfwho

http://derpiboo.ru/198229 Baby AJ vs Timberwolf King.

Yeah, I didn't find PYHD to be that bad either.

crud can't find it, it wasn't just in relation to her FIM work it was a general one about all her stuff.

Again, she's doing better, but still the one writer I wouldn't be the least upset to see move on. She's a good writer, I just don't like her style.

And it's the overall FEEL of it, yes when you break it down and analyse it, not that bad, though still the biggest jerkass/non-jerkass ratio in the show amongst modern ponies. It just FEELS do damn grim and un-Equestrian.

I can't think of any episode of the show I would consider grim.

I honestly believe that grim and ponies don't mix, but it hasn't appeared in the show in any real sense of the word.

Well I've never subscribed to the theory that ponies are inherently better than humans or any theoretical sapient race morality wise. So yeah I don't see it as grim.

Agreed. Frankly I find that concept insulting.

I don't see it as particularly grim either. It was established pretty early on that ponies are just as capable of being jerks as anyone else. Just because the overall setting is on the idealistic side of the spectrum doesn't mean there can't be some jerkishness.

How exactly is it insulting to think that Equestria might be nicer than reality?

edited 30th Dec '12 6:22:37 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Humans may be more violent, but it's a lot easier to develop a peaceful utopia when you have crap like Windigos punishing you for conflict and The Power of Friendship is a literal magical force.

edited 30th Dec '12 6:22:56 PM by Crowfall

Grim is when Twilight almost falls off a cliff and dies.

Grim is when Twilight almost becomes permanently stoned.

Grim is when Rarity and a trio of pegasi almost become a big red stain on the ground.

And that's just from the first season.

@JT: That was one of those comments I immediately regretted caused I phrased it wrong.

I find it insulting when fans of the show continuously espouse a Humans Are Bastards ideology and try to make it out like there is nothing good about real people. That kind of simplistic, defeatist rhetoric pisses me off.

The show's society is nicer than ours, but I put that down to it being a kid's show rather than something inherent to the setting itself.

Honestly, I agree with Badwolfwho and Bluespade on this one.

And as for the whole Windigoes thing: My headcanon is that they all died out over the years from not getting enough hatread to feed on, so if Equestria somehow became a Crapsack world, even if it was just for one day, the Windigoes still wouldn't show up since there extinct by now.

edited 30th Dec '12 6:27:57 PM by marston

And yet none of those things occur. Nor will they ever.

edited 30th Dec '12 6:26:24 PM by TheFreeman

Eh, I wouldn't really consider that grim. Could Have Been Messy has been a standby of all children's programming since forever. Somepony nearly falling off a cliff and splatting, but being saved? Not grim. Somepony actually falling off a cliff and splatting? Grim.

And yeah, it's a really blurry line.

@Blue: Okay, I definitely agree with that. The way you phrased it pretty much ran headon into one of my own personal nitpicks, which is when people insist that the setting can't be as idyllic as it appears and that there's all sorts of horrible stuff going on that we just don't see. The idea that you can't have a compelling setting without it being cynically realistic has always rubbed me the wrong way.

edited 30th Dec '12 6:28:20 PM by JapaneseTeeth

I believe he wasn't being serious.

MLP might be a victim of Cerebus Fandom.

edited 30th Dec '12 6:31:23 PM by DavidtheMouse14

Some yes, otherwise we're in G3, PYHD was just to much. And okay "grim" was the wrong word, i'm not sure what exactly describes it best, it just FELT wrong.

And I've already given plenty of reasons why ponies would be nicer and less assholeish then humans. The fact that they are better is one of the things I simply love about the show and the setting, tired of nothing but shows filled with death, fight, sex, , misanthropy, dark serous crap. There's really only one other show that seems worth watching anymore, and that's Doctor Who,

So yes I prefer for Equestria to be better then the real world, because let's face it, considering the fucking hell hole we live in, it is.

and no not saying ALL humans are worse then ponies, just society as a whole. and on the whole I really do love this fandom and feel it's one of the brightest spots of hope we have.

edited 30th Dec '12 6:30:24 PM by Seraphem