I wish the sheep had New Zealand accents.

@edvedd But cows are living in barns, many cows in one barn, like farm animals not like persons in case of pony hauses.

@Sereg That's still sound wrong, "it's not slavery it's X", many times slave owners used that as defense.

@kegisak That can be interesting concept, but not for MLPFIM

@Japanese Teeth I view those scenes is same way. That way Ponies don't look like racist slavers in my eyes.

I'd agree that the "it's not slavery it's X" thing is a lousy defense, but in this case we haven't really seen any evidence that points the other animals being treated as slaves. At the absolute worst it's indentured servitude, which is a voluntary setup. The fact that they live in barns probably isn't a big deal either; it's probably animal equivalent of living in a dormitory.

@DC Many, many cultures in human history have commonly had communal living spaces. It's just they way that herd animals work, and is in no way an indication of slavery. And saying that "it just didn't happen" is no way to approach anything.

The thingy with the sheep is a little questionable, but there isn't really anything that indicates something untoward with the cows or donkeys or mules.

Also, one episode has the sheep sapient, upcoming song mentions "tiny ewes" being in petting zoos. Hmm... continuityyyyyy...

edited 9th Aug '12 7:03:11 AM by Pannic

Well, the adorably technicolored Crystal Sheep are probably a different species. Either that or being adorable and letting ponies pet them is just one of the services that they provide.

edited 9th Aug '12 7:05:43 AM by PerpetualLurker

Perpetual Lurker is right. There are many human cultures where communal living is normal. And the fact is that if there's nothing preventing someone from leaving, they're not slaves. That's part of what makes slavery so horrible! By you're definition, many real world people would be slaves just becuase they live with their coworkers which is a common phenomenon. I've met many people like that and they're perfectly happy and well off.

EDIT: Crystal sheep, like diamond dogs are different from the more commonly seen species.

edited 9th Aug '12 7:06:10 AM by Sereg

Yeah, I mean we both have sapient and non-sapient dogs...

@ Perpetual Lurker I don't "it just didn't happen" I prefer to think it's just joke istead to have horrible implication what ruin show setting to me. And saying "that's how animal works" is't not excuse for their treatment, they are not just animals if they are sentient.

edited 9th Aug '12 7:06:57 AM by DeathCloud

My edit was ninja'd. Also, I think that the same thing applies to several real world species. The world of the show has both a sapient and a non-sapient version.

EDIT:But they're not being mstreated. As I said, they have better living conditions than many humans.

edited 9th Aug '12 7:08:21 AM by Sereg

Okay, different species, I can buy that.

And Death Cloud does have a point - the thing with the sheep was a gag. Sometimes we have a bit of a habit of reading a lot into gags and one-off lines.

@DC Humans are animals, too. I don't mean the word in any derogatory fashion. Ponies still behave like real horses in many ways, so it stands to reason that species like sheep and cows have their natural tight-knit herd nature deeply ingrained into their culture as well.

Well, the fact that Flutershy can talk to pretty much any animal means they are all capable of some sort of thought. And we've seen that Sheep/Cows are far more herd-instinct oriented.

Really I don't see ponies doing anything to creatures against there will, so my guess would be that for the most prt cows/sheep/pigs etc... simply aren't as intellgent as ponies, and would really just not go above the level of other animals on their own, their relationship with ponies is symbiotic, the ponies give them shelter, food, care and what not in exchange for there services. Cows give them milk, chickens eggs (unfertilized ones), sheep wool, pigs fertilizer/truffle hunting.

@Pannic: Yeah, that tendency can drive me up the wall sometimes, especially when the one incident in question was really obviously just a joke. Then again on the other hand we get some really amusing bits of characterization out of those as well. I guess it just depends on how well it fits the rest of the setting.

I have to admit that I've theorized about the idea that there are different levels of intelligence in the setting. Ponies, Griffons, Zebras, and Mules would be at the top (more or less human with Furry Reminder moments), and then stuff like farm animals might be a level down (still sapient and capable of functioning in society, but more affected by animal instincts), then you'd have stuff like rabbits (Angel and Owlowysius can obviously understand speech and sociality, but don't participate in it to a large degree), and then just plain animals (Winona, most birds, etc.)

edited 9th Aug '12 7:15:08 AM by JapaneseTeeth

If we treat the gags differently, it means that we can't trust what we're shown, which means that we can't be sure of anything about the show which removes our ability to draw any conclusions whatsoever, which removes the point of trying to understand the world in which the show takes place.

Lets replace ponies and sheeps in that scene with humans, still it's OK?

Simlar thing I saw in Avatar episode where Tarlok showed how much bastard he is.

@Pannic: Then it was a gag. It may have been indicative of slavery, but it probably wasn't.

Unless we get an episode that deals directly with the issue, I'm not sure we can really call anything.

That is my viewpoint.

@DC Yes, it would still be perfectly fine. None of the sheep objected to going into the pen. One simply said that they could have just asked nicely, which was true.

@Lurker: I will agree with that. If they were forced to go in, that would in fact be extremely problematic.

edited 9th Aug '12 7:17:32 AM by edvedd

@Death Cloud: That's assuming that any differences between sheep and ponies are purely aesthetic, which we honestly don't know is the case.

@Sereg: I think it's possible to tell the difference between stuff that's there for Rule of Funny and stuff that's actually supposed to tell us something about the setting. Like I said before, there's no way you can convince me that Pinkie can grow extra limbs at will because the one time she did that was purely a joke. The line is fuzzy, but I think it definitely exists. There are things that occur in the show that we aren't meant to take seriously. I think you can understand the world without taking literally everything we see at face value. In no small part because taking everything at face value leads to a lot of inconsistencies.

edited 9th Aug '12 7:19:26 AM by JapaneseTeeth

I haven't talked to AJ about her sheep. I don't know enough about sheep to determine if what AJ does is considered slavery.

@edvedd That how I treat this, and that way I dont see any problems with that (but we still need some canon word about that), and all those justification sound like mild version Would Be Rude to Say "Genocide" (with slavery instead genocide).

I think I will not talk about this subject anymore, its push my berserk button to much.

Death, do you have proof that the sheep/cows are not able to simply walk away from the farm any time they wanted? If not, then you have no evidence that it is slavery instead of a simple arrangement between them and AJ where she gives them food/shelter in exchange for wool/milk.

Hot button issues! Getcha hot button issues here!

Sorry for that.

TL;DR we really don't have enough information to make a real statement either way and it really just depends on interpretation.

Anyway, back to not-hot button issues: This is adorable.