By sucking up to the boss.

edited 6th Jan '12 10:55:33 AM by KylerThatch

My only issue with that is that there's zero implication in canon that that's the case. I understand why it bugs you, but the show doesn't seem to follow that line of thought. Then again, it would hardly be the first time that we flagrantly disregard canon, so feel free to ignore me. We'll just say that it doesn't bother me as much as it bothers you and we'll leave it at that.

edited 6th Jan '12 10:57:36 AM by JapaneseTeeth

You're using OUR standards. Not Equestria's. That's the ESSENCE of Blue and Orange Morality.

You honestly can't say that our method of thinking is right. What if humans had been born with a brain make up more like those of ponies? Would you still be complaining?

edited 6th Jan '12 10:58:01 AM by gingerninja666

Is it still considered slavery if the slave doesn't know he's being enslaved?

Take that how you will.

Can we either focus on the 'hopes and dreams and magic' explanation or the brain chemistry explanation? Saying that cutie marks exist because of brain makeup is only helping keg reinforce his point, Ginger. (Which isn't objectively a bad thing, but I don't like thinking about brain chemistry as a determinant in humans, let alone our colorful squishy friends.)

^I take that as needlessly sensationalist.

edited 6th Jan '12 10:59:45 AM by RedSavant

I'm just going to go with the "cutie marks are magic and therefore always fit the ponies perfectly" theory.

That's not really a good analogy. You might as well say that all humans are "enslaved" to think the way that we do because we didn't determine it ourselves.

edited 6th Jan '12 11:01:03 AM by JapaneseTeeth

What I'm saying is: Humans and ponies have different standards. Neither one of us can claim that we're right based on objective fact.

If Ponies weren't NATRUALLY like that, or if they had been magically altered at some point in history to be like that by some higher power with an agenda, then I could see the concern.

We have no implications of that. This is just how ponies work. There's nothing wrong with it. I really hope people can understand what I'm saying

edited 6th Jan '12 11:09:33 AM by gingerninja666

I'm right based on objective fact. Everything I say is true and binding.

I'm right based on objective fact. Everything I say is true and binding.

I already tried to add some humor to this topic, and failed spectacularly.

Sheesh. I'll be back later.

I'd post another image of Twilight's dancing to break up the monotony of the argument, but I'm not on my own computer at the moment.

I'm sorry, I may have misunderstood something down the line. So just for clarification, ginger: Are you, or are you not arguing that the interpretation of a CM is set and immune to change? Because that is the implication I am arguing against.

I'm not saying my way is right, nor that there way is wrong. But if we, as two races, interacted, I would not want to step back and think about the implication that some element of my colourful new friends is not due to their own choice, but a pre-determined element. Just as they likely would be uncomfortable with the prospect that I'd be completely happy to drift through a 'meaningless' life. They may have an orange morality, but that doesn't deny me from my blue.

Also, I should apologize for adding to the over-seriousness of the topic. It's the morning, and I'm a bit too tired to not take things too seriously. Ideal I wouldn't be arguing, but what the hell, I'm here already.

edited 6th Jan '12 11:11:34 AM by kegisak

You know, this issue would probably make for a good fic. Maybe something for you to write when you finish The Colour You Bleed.

That's the interpretation I like.

edited 6th Jan '12 11:18:05 AM by CDRW

@kegi I think Cutie Marks are relatively vague and can be interpreted in numerous ways while still remaining loosely tied to one overarching thesis.

edited 6th Jan '12 11:17:19 AM by gingerninja666

Don't worry about it, keg. Your interpretation is as valid as ours. It's not your fault that it's wrong.

In all seriousness, though, the interpretation can and probably does change. The mark itself will never change, but Cheerilee says that she herself didn't know what her own mark was for for a few days after she got it, and only after a while did she realize that it represented her love of teaching. So, the fact that she got her mark represented that she had figured out what it was that she wanted to do, whether or not she realized it consciously. Again, though, if she decided one day that teaching really wasn't her thing, she could reinterpret her mark.

^Yeah, there you go. Well said, Ginger.

edited 6th Jan '12 11:20:01 AM by RedSavant

Yeesh. I feel bad for bringing it up in the first place.

Actually, only half bad. Serious debate isn't that bad, come to think of it. As long as we don't devolve into bickering. I don't think we devolved into bickering.

Half-bad is still bad, though.

Oh, I already finished The Colour You Bleed. The final chapter and Epilogue got put on Eq D yesterday.

Although, given that it's arc words were "It's not personal", it might be a good way of linking it to a possible sequel. A heavy theme in Bleed was there was ultimately no control - there was noone pulling the strings, it wasn't personal - and so it was up to us to give meaning. A sequel could easily expand on that in more depth, exploring more the idea of a life without ultimate purpose.

It even fits well with the plot - It involves a god getting tired of ruling, and a council trying to initiate a war of conquest. The council believes that it's their purpose and destiny, and the god believes that there isn't any. Blueblood believes that without purpose you need to make you own. It's a good point of contrast between three ideals, which adds another layer to the conflict. No longer just a war between two ponies, but between two ideals.

@Ginger: Alright then, that's my bad, and I apologize. You and I are on the same side about this.

edited 6th Jan '12 11:21:52 AM by kegisak

Celestia dammit! Good thing you said that or I would have been waiting for the end forever!

edited 6th Jan '12 11:23:46 AM by CDRW

For some levity...

An article on Cracked.com today mentioned that while War Horse was good, Horse War would be better. The article also mentioned that the proposed script for Horse War is just drawings of horses riding in tanks.

Ahem◊.

A pony gets a cutie mark once they've decided that this is what they want to do with the rest of their life with a certainty so large that the magic can tell that they'll never change their minds.

That's how I see it.

As for this immutability being a problem, everyone keeps certain aspects of their personality throughout their adult lives. What t is depends.

Sorry, should have mentioned it in the fanfic thread. here's the link.

If you had Celestia's or Luna's cutie mark would you really want to change them?

If I had Celestia's, probably. I never really had much of a sunny disposition.

I want to meet Luna so I can sing You Will Go To The Moon to her.

so do I

Fun fact: I watched a Let's Play of Amnesia: The Dark Descent and the Cinema Snob's review of Cannibal Ferox ... in order to RELAX from the drama and madness of this PONY THREAD.

edited 6th Jan '12 11:45:19 AM by FellDeedsAwake