Both previous episodes had perfect opportunities for her lose her rag with someone, but it never happens. The fact the writers can't find opportunities to properly write her only exacerbates the problem.

I do feel sometimes too much like this guy though:

edited 29th Dec '12 2:32:14 PM by Psi001

I don't know, I haven't seen the future episodes yet.

@Psi Why, though? You just seem to want episodes to contrive reasons for her to get mad just so she can get mad. No once clashed with her in these past two episodes, and the episode doesn't call for it, so it doesn't happen. There's no quota that needs to be filled.

edited 29th Dec '12 2:32:54 PM by PerpetualLurker

@Psi uh? do elaborate. She was the one at fault on Apple Reunion it makes no sense for her to lose her temper there, it would come out as very hypocrite. And I don´t think she will ever yell at Spike.

edited 29th Dec '12 2:33:01 PM by Alesiopdv

They just need to find ideal points for her key traits to come out, even when RD or Pinkie are in positive roles, it is executed via their flawed personalities, just subtle enough it doesn't ruin them. And as said even as a Straight Man, Twilight is often haughty and neurotic.

I was refering more to the point that her and the Apples were too reserved to really exacerbate the problem. I feel the episode could have worked better if they started resisting AJ's ideas, and she became a tad forceful and overdefensive about it. And she didn't have to outright snap at Spike to show her temper was grating from his bumbling. As said before AJ could be a Straight Man but still show her irritance at those she butts heads with.

edited 29th Dec '12 2:36:05 PM by Psi001

Am I seriously the only troper who preferred AJ's character last episode? Ya' know, ...where she had to learn something? Where she actively was the problem? We're she was being a Well-Intentioned Extremist that simply missed the point?

This episode besides the beginning, she was a doormat just letting Spike walk all over her.How the hell is that a better character?

AJ is different, though. You keep expecting her to work the same way as everyone else, but she doesn't. Her flaws and quirks don't really come out until you push on them hard enough, and that's a big part of what makes her unique.

But that's part of what makes her lack vibrancy however, because until someone riles her up she is practically The Everyman. Even when she is being pushed I don't see her character flow through anymore. As said, you can be a lucid, less insane character and still have personality about it.

edited 29th Dec '12 2:39:28 PM by Psi001

The cast needs an everyman, though. What you seem to want done would go a long way towards homogenizing the cast, IMO. And I still find that she has plenty of personality in her base state, so I don't even see the initial problem to begin with.

I believe its the same problem with the Flim Flam episode, she was the one with the higher morale ground but nobody was listening and they all hold a sort of Idiot Ball, on this case not wanting to hurt a little boy feelings. I admit its a bit of a contrived set-up but it works as comedy (in real life I guess they would have yelled at Spike to stop...)

I´m still on the side she has a personality, an honest, hard-working, never backing down on her word personality. I never seen her as "bland" or "dull".

I just don't like Everymen, I feel you can have more relatable cast additions without making them outright bland and generic. Most people in real life aren't 'normal' anyway.

I just feel AJ was originally one far more likely to speak her mind. She seemed a bit self righteous and when someone was annoying she usually got riled up enough she felt it neccessary to get on a pedestal about it and often make a fool of herself. I feel the current AJ wouldn't have bothered with Trixie in "Boast Busters" for example, and kept quietly in the audience with a rolled eye at best, compared to her actions in that episode where she is so irritated by the character's odiousness she rather loudly vents her annoyance and jumps at the call to show her up. She just seemed to have a bit of an emotional overzeal about people acting improperly towards others.

It's not an over the top trait, in fact it's very relatable. Half the people on forums are that way really, including myself.

edited 29th Dec '12 2:55:39 PM by Psi001

@Psi Can you give an example where she would have spoken out recently, but doesn't? I still think it's just a case of a situation for her to get angry not arising, not that she's actually less likely to get angry.

Okay, now that the episode has finally aired, I can give my opinion on it.

Quite frankly, the plot was predictable and not at all intricate or interesting. Some particular details of the execution were questionable. But you know what? I enjoyed it anyway. Figured out pretty quickly that this one of those "sit back and enjoy the gag" episodes, which is pretty much confirmed when there was no big generic aesop at the end, just two friends coming to an understanding.

And on reflection, I did get a little more out of this episode than just a couple of good laughs. I got to see how Applejack handles a sticky social situation. I got to learn a little more about Spike, regardless of whether a Dragon Code of Honor is actually a dragon thing or just a Spike thing. If I ever rewatch the episode (I might), it would likely be for that reason.

As said, the previous episode she is actually the least exasperated with Spike while Rarity and RD show their neuroses very quickly.

The fact their aren't many opportunities for her temper to seep through doesn't justify it as much as it shows writers haven't bothered to make situations for her character.

She doesn't have snap and go all out on someone for this to show anyway, just show a visible rising temper. So much as her teeth grating or trying to contain her annoyance, subtle stuff like that. Twilight is often neurotic, that doesn't mean she's always on the verge of a nervous breakdown.

edited 29th Dec '12 3:00:24 PM by Psi001

This is true for 90% of the episodes; plot is not the show's strong point, probably by design. It's made for kids and kids are less likely to pay attention to complex plots.

The show is pretty much carried by its character interactions.

edited 29th Dec '12 2:58:28 PM by Bluespade

Well, I meant more so than other episodes.

That, or that fact came through more strongly here, at least.

Umh, good point. I guess you can say the character has learned not to jump to conclusion after her encounter with Zecora. But honeslty I recall two times she jumped into a fight and both were semi-justified, one in Boast Busters (where Trixie basically insulted her) and the other in OAB (where she was simply sticking to her family and being stubborn as usual.)

The rest of the time she is pretty laid-back, in FPK she didn´t bother with the whole Pinkie Sense and instead worried about Fluttershy so I got the impression she only argues when she is being attacked, otherwise she doesn´t care.

Also I love that avatar Kyler!

edited 29th Dec '12 3:02:09 PM by Alesiopdv

Well, that was one of the worse nights of my life. I think I'm past the worst of it, though.

Best thing about the new episode hands down? Rainbow Dash as a self-insert fanfic writer is now canon.

Oh, and before I forget, what was everyone else's general opinion about the episode? I kinda went to bed and skipped over everything. If that wasn't already obvious.

Fanfic of what, exactly? She seemed to be writing more of a thinly-veiled autobiography.

If she were writing herself into the Daring Do series, it would be fanfic.

edited 29th Dec '12 3:03:51 PM by KylerThatch

The Pinkie Sense wasn't harming anyone though, only Twilight who was walking into each problem out of arrogance, and she seemed oblivious to that.

She also gone overboard in Bridle Gossip, where she is quick to jump to conclusions about someone harming her family, to the point she is outright spear heading the vendetta.

She also got a bit hypocritical about Gabby Gums in Ponyville Confidential.

And as said even before Trixie insulted her, AJ was being overly vocal and righteous about how she felt about her. Trixie was being a bit of a show off then, but not provokative, showing AJ did have a bit of an overzeal. Even RD was more passive about it and even made a Hypocrisy Nod.

As said that's kind of the point to her character, she only acts up when she thinks someone is doing wrong, she just tends to take it out of proportion due to her temper and pride. She wants everyone to play fair, but goes too extreme about it.

It was an okay episode. Rule of Funny or Rule of Drama inaccuracies aside, I thought the plot worked, despite being predictable. I just thought AJ was a bit dull as a reactor and more humor value could have been made out of Spike serving another pony. Even the brief favors he does for them show that potential.

edited 29th Dec '12 3:10:39 PM by Psi001

^^ The Wonderbolts.

Applejack walks into a bar. The bartender says "we don't serve noble gases here". Applejack doesn't react.

I don't like the Everyman trope either. Usually it just results in bland characters that aren't really relatable anyway. I relate a lot better to Tony Stark than Captaim America for instance.

Goodnight folks.

RD isn't necessarily writing fanfic. It's blatantly a self-insert story, though.

And I'm just going to ditto what Bluespade said about the show being more character based than plot based. I couldn't care less what the plot is as long as the character interactions are written well, and this time around I think they worked.

Anyway, whether AJ is "boring" or not is highly subjective. Just because she doesn't crack as often doesn't make her a less complex character, it just means you have to work harder to see it. Like in this episode. At the beginning she doesn't mind Spike that much, she just wants him to stop helping because from her perspective, it isn't a big deal; it's just what she does and she doesn't deserve special treatment. Then over the course of the episode you can see her getting progressively more frustrated with his refusal to let go, which leads her to start pawning off his assistance to her friends, and finally enlisting their help to settle the debt once and for all. There's definitely a reaction there, she's just more willing to put up with him than most other ponies would have been. I know I found her interesting in this episode.

And I'd also like to point out that a character doesn't have to learn something in every episode that they take part in. Just because AJ didn't learn the lesson has no bearing on her characterization. The core plot was about Spike realizing that among friends, you don't always have to reimburse each other for help because real friends will just do that regardless of payback.

Goodnight.

edited 29th Dec '12 3:12:06 PM by JapaneseTeeth